View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #261
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Look up the history of the Swastika prior to the Nazis. If anything, I think it is a better symbol than the confederate flag.
    Oh I'm well aware that it wasn't invented by the NAZIs.

    Lets see, the Navajo used it in healing rituals.

    It has roots in old Norse mythology and its used by Buddhist and Hindus.

    Its been around for ages and its still used today for a variety of cultural and religious reasons.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    "Most" of white southerners elected proudly and defiantly racist leaders who legislated and enforced racist laws that imposed second class at best status on blacks. How do you figure "most" weren't supportive of those laws?

    And I clearly said that's not who I identify with at all, and that the "overwhelming majority of the South" has "moved beyond that era and that mindset." You're apparently arguing against what you think a liberal might say and ignoring what I've actually typed.
    I am uninterested in changing your mind. I grew up suth'n. My acquaintances were not, for the most part...racist. That yours are/were is your problem. And if they werent and you choose to still identify with racial notions...again...thats on you.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Quick question: If a German decided to fly the Nazi flag under the premise that their ancestors did so, and they want to honor those ancestors and what they fought for, not necessarily the whole burning Jews in gas ovens part, would anybody buy it?
    The Nazi flag was created for and used by a racist. Now...should those German citizens be shamed to fly a German flag?

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I am uninterested in changing your mind. I grew up suth'n. My acquaintances were not, for the most part...racist. That yours are/were is your problem. And if they werent and you choose to still identify with racial notions...again...thats on you.
    I've spent all of my 51 years in the South. What part of "overwhelming majority of the South" has "moved beyond that era and that mindset" is hard to grasp?
    Last edited by JasperL; 06-23-15 at 11:53 AM.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    The Nazi flag was created for and used by a racist. Now...should those German citizens be shamed to fly a German flag?
    We're not talking about some unidentified "German" flag but a particular one intimately associated with Hitler, the Third Reich and the murder of millions of Jews.

    Unfortunately in this case we're also not talking about some unidentified "Confederate" flag but a very particular and distinctive one that was raised on the State Capitol of SC in defense of white supremacy and Jim Crow, as well as other states with the same goal, and is now the the symbol for white racist dirtbags all over this country.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    So what would you do?
    This follows on your previous claim that I am ignorant of US history, where upon you delve in current Russian history (!!) in a false analogy of the US Civil War.

    What is to be done is for US state governments to remove a symbol that represents an attempt to dissolve the Union and maintain a system of slave labor. The US is usually a place that does not celebrate rebellious losers.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    That's a silly thing to say. You're dumbing down the subject in your attempt to paint the South as seceding solely to protect slavery. While it is true that slave states and non-slave states had disagreements, the South did not secede based on the fact that they wanted to keep slaves.
    I'll go ahead and repost this since it seems to have slipped past without understanding...

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I've spent all of my 51 years in the South. What part of "overwhelming majority of the South" has "moved beyond that era and that mindset" is hard to grasp?
    Do you connect with a southern heritage?

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I'll go ahead and repost this since it seems to have slipped past without understanding...

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.
    That is a damning quote, but it's more damning in what he is explicitly rejecting, so I'll post that:

    The new Constitution has put at rest forever all the agitating questions relating to our peculiar institutions—African slavery as it exists among us—the proper status of the negro in our form of civilization. This was the immediate cause of the late rupture and present revolution. Jefferson, in his forecast, had anticipated this, as the "rock upon which the old Union would split." He was right. What was conjecture with him, is now a realized fact. But whether he fully comprehended the great truth upon which that rock stood and stands, may be doubted. The prevailing ideas entertained by him and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were, that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with; but the general opinion of the men of that day was, that, somehow or other, in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the idea of a Government built upon it—when the "storm came and the wind blew, it fell."

    Our new Government is founded upon exactly the opposite ideas; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests, upon the great truth that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery, subordination to the superior race, is his natural and normal condition.

    . . . look with confidence to the ultimate universal acknowledgement of the truths upon which our system rests? It is the first government ever instituted upon the principles in strict conformity to nature, and the ordination of Providence, in furnishing the materials of human society. Many governments have been founded upon the principle of the subordination and serfdom of certain classes of the same race; such were and are in violation of the laws of nature. Our system commits no such violation of nature's laws.
    Pretty stunning. Hard to read that and conclude the Confederacy was about 'states' rights' or tariffs or some other nonsense. They told us in their own words, crystal clear, what the Confederacy was all about - preserving white supremacy and slavery.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    We're not talking about some unidentified "German" flag but a particular one intimately associated with Hitler, the Third Reich and the murder of millions of Jews.

    Unfortunately in this case we're also not talking about some unidentified "Confederate" flag but a very particular and distinctive one that was raised on the State Capitol of SC in defense of white supremacy and Jim Crow, as well as other states with the same goal, and is now the the symbol for white racist dirtbags all over this country.
    Sorry...but thats just hype and rhetoric. That flag was not created to promote white supremacy and "Jim Crow" (the fact that you drag Jim Crow laws into the argument says more about you and your intent than anything I can say about the history of the south).

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