View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

Voters
70. You may not vote on this poll
  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
Page 2 of 41 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 402

Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I think the decision should be South Carolinians'.
    To late for that NB. BO called for Reflection. The MS Media helped out. The word was sent out. Quiji was consulted. The Answer.

    Send in.....the Illiberals.





    Protesters gathered under the controversial Confederate flag at South Carolina's state legislature, demanding it be taken down in response to the Charleston church massacre.

    Waving placards, chanting "take it down" and singing "We Shall Overcome," the youthful crowd, black and white, condemned the Civil War saltire as a symbol of lingering racist sentiment in the American South.....snip~

    Confederate flag protest in South Carolina

  2. #12
    Guru
    soot's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Last Seen
    01-30-17 @ 06:39 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    4,308

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.
    White southerners certainly do associate a number of historical and cultural things with the Confederate flag that have nothing to do with slavery, I'll grant you that.

    Black southerners probably associate different things with that flag. Things exactly like slavery and Jim Crow and centuries of oppression.

    Both for better (and I'll freely admit that there are many admirable things about southern history and culture) and for worse (though there are also a lot of disgusting and despicable aspects of southern history and culture) nobody can take that history away.

    Removing a flag doesn't remove history or culture.

    German Strafgesetzbuch § 86a outlaws the Swastika and numerous other objects of Nazi symbolism, but certainly nobody currently living in the developed world is unaware of Nazi history.

    History not withstanding I think that there's a lot of value in removing a symbol which, while it might serve as a source of pride for some, is also a source of pain for many others.

    I'm not a South Carolinian, so I really don't feel that I've got any dog in this fight.

    I think flying a Confederate flag in front of the state house is a real douchebag move, but I don't have to live there, and never would consider living there, so I really don't care what they do.

    But if I were a resident/citizen of South Carolina I would very much support the flag's removal.

    If you want Confederate history you can always get it from a book, or from some means other than jamming your thumb in the eye of the state's 30% African American population.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  3. #13
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,282

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    I heard Governor Pataki this morning on Fox saying that he was sure that South Carolina would do the "right" thing and thought to myself, "Well, that's up to South Carolina to decide."

  4. #14
    Sage
    Gimmesometruth's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    US Southwest
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:43 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    21,101

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    Leave the flag. In the same way that it's wrong to punish all citizens by taking away their guns when nuts go on a rampage, so it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.

    The Confederacy and the flag, do not represent slavery except to a few select nuts that adopted the flag for their own hateful purposes. The flag became a symbol of rebellion against the occupying unioners after the Civil War, during the Restoration. The unioners burned, raped and pillaged - and this was after the war was over. The south held on to their flag as a symbol that they would survive and rise again against the aggressors.

    And, for those that think Lincoln fought the war over slavery - think again. Emancipation was a by-product of the war.

    Read Lincoln's letter to Horace Greeley:


    Abraham Lincoln's Letter to Horace Greeley

    Lincoln's only purpose was to restore the Union. Period.
    The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.
    Quote Originally Posted by Drumpf
    "I could stand in the middle of 5th Avenue and shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters."
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  5. #15
    Sage
    Hatuey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Moderate
    Posts
    40,315

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quick question: If a German decided to fly the Nazi flag under the premise that their ancestors did so, and they want to honor those ancestors and what they fought for, not necessarily the whole burning Jews in gas ovens part, would anybody buy it?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

  6. #16
    Sage

    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    SW Virginia
    Last Seen
    Today @ 07:24 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    16,472

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    To late for that NB. BO called for Reflection. The MS Media helped out. The word was sent out. Quiji was consulted. The Answer.

    Send in.....the Illiberals.





    Protesters gathered under the controversial Confederate flag at South Carolina's state legislature, demanding it be taken down in response to the Charleston church massacre.

    Waving placards, chanting "take it down" and singing "We Shall Overcome," the youthful crowd, black and white, condemned the Civil War saltire as a symbol of lingering racist sentiment in the American South.....snip~

    Confederate flag protest in South Carolina
    Why is there always some numb nut holding the sign upside down? We're going to have to get these signs made with an "Up" arrow, I guess. That's disheartening. Reminds me of Being There, with Peter Sellers.

  7. #17
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Chicago Illinois
    Last Seen
    10-14-15 @ 08:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Private
    Posts
    56,981

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by humbolt View Post
    Why is there always some numb nut holding the sign upside down? We're going to have to get these signs made with an "Up" arrow, I guess. That's disheartening. Reminds me of Being There, with Peter Sellers.
    I thought the one saying they marched in 2000 and still march. Was pretty good.

    Don't even need a cause.

  8. #18
    Global Moderator
    The Hammer of Chaos
    Goshin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Dixie
    Last Seen
    Today @ 02:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    41,917

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    I heard Governor Pataki this morning on Fox saying that he was sure that South Carolina would do the "right" thing and thought to myself, "Well, that's up to South Carolina to decide."


    I am a South Carolinian. I was around during the first flag flap in the 90s, which was eventually ended by moving it to the War Memorial in 2000. The law doing so says this cannot be changed or modified without a 2/3rds majority of our State Congress agreeing.

    That.... is likely to take a while, if it happens at all. Some of you may not be aware how hard it is to get any Congress to muster a 2/3rds majority about ANYTHING.


    I'm ok with that. I don't believe we should react to the hysteria in haste. We should reflect, consider, discuss, debate at length... and then decide, and act with due deliberation, making it clear we are not acting as a result of the outside hysteria but of our own volition.

    I'm slightly disappointed that our Governor didn't wait a while before saying something like this... it makes her look like she is too subject to outside influence.


    Me personally.... I don't really care all that much. I thought the War Memorial was a good place for it. Ok now a lot of people think it shouldn't be right there at the edge of State House grounds, they think it shows approval of what only a few % of nuts and haters think it means. Ok fine. Move it to some other Confederate Memorial place in Columbia and leave it be. Or leave it where it is and tell all the outsiders howling over a piece of cloth to go play hide and go @#$ themselves.

    Doesn't really matter that much to me, I just don't want whatever is done, done under outside pressure.


    Best thing the SC Congress should do, is respond to Governor Haley with "We'll put it on next year's legislative agenda, and we'll get back to you. Meanwhile, we have far more important things to handle."

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  9. #19
    Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Between Athens and Jerusalem
    Last Seen
    05-18-16 @ 06:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    33,522

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The question is not what Lincoln was fighting for, the question is what was the Confederacy was fighting for, what the flag represents. The Confederacy was fighting to maintain their economic system, that was based on slavery. The flag represents that system, it represents a system based on slave labor.
    Not everyone was fighting for slavery, to many they fought to protect their homes and to defend against what was seen as federal govt intervention. There is more cultural significance than slavery in that flag, and I say that as someone who's family fought for the north.

    I don't have a dog in this fight-but if the citizens of that state want it, it should be allowed.

  10. #20
    Sage

    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Tennessee
    Last Seen
    Today @ 06:36 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    16,409

    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    Leave the flag. In the same way that it's wrong to punish all citizens by taking away their guns when nuts go on a rampage, so it is wrong to attempt to take away history and culture, just because you don't like a symbol.

    The Confederacy and the flag, do not represent slavery except to a few select nuts that adopted the flag for their own hateful purposes. The flag became a symbol of rebellion against the occupying unioners after the Civil War, during the Restoration. The unioners burned, raped and pillaged - and this was after the war was over. The south held on to their flag as a symbol that they would survive and rise again against the aggressors.
    The fact is the flag was revived as a FU to Federal desegregation efforts, in SC and other former Confederate states, in the 1950s and early 1960s. That is the background for the resurgence. So if the "aggressors" in 1950s were liberals and Yankees determined to see SC treat blacks as equal human beings, then perhaps the point is valid, the flag was a symbol that they'd prevail over them in their defense of Jim Crow and institutionalized, state sponsored white supremacy.

    And, for those that think Lincoln fought the war over slavery - think again. Emancipation was a by-product of the war.
    As several have noted, the Southern states certainly believed Lincoln was determined to end slavery, and if I recall correctly his election was explicitly noted in the declarations of secession in at least one state. And the war was about slavery, the seceding states explicitly recognize that was the reason, so yes, emancipation was a by product of a war about slavery.

Page 2 of 41 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •