View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #181
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    I'm not going to deny that some supremacist groups have adopted the rebel flag. I know you are correct about that. But, by banning the flag now, you're just going to push it further toward the extremists. You will guarantee that every white supremacist in this nation starts flying that flag.

    And that is the true tragedy - that a symbol that was never intended to mean something so vile - will now mean something vile. It's a raping of history.
    I can't believe you're quoting history in one comment, then ignoring when THAT flag regained prominence. I didn't ask when the KKK adopted the flag but when the STATE OF S.C. did, along with Georgia and others. So it was absolutely intended to mean something so vile, as it was first flown over the State Capitol put there by the elected leaders of S.C. as a FU to those pushing for civil rights, basic human rights, for 1/3 or more of their citizens.

    So it's not an unfortunate coincidence that racist organizations and the State of SC adopted the flag at the same time. They both adopted it at the same time because that flag had the same meaning to them both, a symbol of white supremacy and the continued subjugation of blacks.

    Goodness, this isn't speculation - it's history. And you're whining that some people on the receiving end of that sordid history and their supporters want that symbol with a clearly racist past brought down.

  2. #182
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Why doesn't she remove the flag and then they can debate/vote to put it back up?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
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  3. #183
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    So it's all the fault of those who object for not asking nicely enough?
    Why is there a necessity to assign blame? When did someone taking offense to something automatically demand that their offense be appeased?


    I can't point to evidence either way on how whites in NYC regarded blacks as people, but the "not slavery" exception is a sort of gigantic one. I think in 1863, if I'm black I'm Ok with whites thinking I'm inferior so long as I'm free and treated somewhat at least equally under the law, and not raped, beaten, killed, my kids sold out from under me, whatever, at my owner's discretion.
    I can't point out to "whites in NYC" but I can point out to our 16th President.

    I will say then that I am not, nor ever have been in favor of bringing about in anyway the social and political equality of the white and black races that I am not nor ever have been in favor of making voters or jurors of negroes, nor of qualifying them to hold office, nor to intermarry with white people; and I will say in addition to this that there is a physical difference between the white and black races which I believe will forever forbid the two races living together on terms of social and political equality. And inasmuch as they cannot so live, while they do remain together there must be the position of superior and inferior, and I as much as any other man am in favor of having the superior position assigned to the white race. I say upon this occasion I do not perceive that because the white man is to have the superior position the negro should be denied everything.

    by:

    Abraham Lincoln




    Sheesh, is there anything a racist, white supremacist can do that you're not going to excuse? First of all I imagine the Jim Crow laws were primarily response to a deeply held belief in white supremacy and racists' attempt to keep blacks subjugated despite their "freedom." But if that wasn't the primary motivation, and if they were in response to reconstruction in 1900, what the hell is your excuse for them being in place and vehemently defended by the southern states in 1960? Still holding a grudge and taking it out on blacks a century later?
    When did explaining the situation in context become excuse making?


    I don't even know how to respond to that. Yes, it would stick in the craw of white men who were up to that point quite able to beat, rape, buy, sell, etc. human beings at their whim. And I imagine that being owned by a white master stuck in the craw of black slaves.
    I imagine it would. Are you familiar with a gentleman named Anthony Johnson?

    But, yes, I get we can't use the lens of 2015 to judge those in 1865. But what most of us are focusing on is more recent history in my lifetime when, for example, S.C. decided to fly the Confederate flag as a protest for the Feds forcing civil rights on reluctant white racists throughout the South. Did it stick in the craw of whites (poor things) that whites in S.C. had to share restaurants with blacks? And blacks got to go to decent schools? Attend state colleges? Play sports with fellow whites?
    Right, you're relativizing it. I'm trying to paint a picture for you to understand where these people are coming from in its broader sense, you're making the mistake of taking one snapshot in time and basing an entire opinion on that when there is so much more to it.
    "Whoever lays his hand on me to govern me is an usurper and tyrant, and I declare him my enemy." -- Pierre-Joseph Proudhon

  4. #184
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I can't believe you're quoting history in one comment, then ignoring when THAT flag regained prominence. I didn't ask when the KKK adopted the flag but when the STATE OF S.C. did, along with Georgia and others. So it was absolutely intended to mean something so vile, as it was first flown over the State Capitol put there by the elected leaders of S.C. as a FU to those pushing for civil rights, basic human rights, for 1/3 or more of their citizens.

    So it's not an unfortunate coincidence that racist organizations and the State of SC adopted the flag at the same time. They both adopted it at the same time because that flag had the same meaning to them both, a symbol of white supremacy and the continued subjugation of blacks.

    Goodness, this isn't speculation - it's history. And you're whining that some people on the receiving end of that sordid history and their supporters want that symbol with a clearly racist past brought down.
    Wow - the sound of a mind slamming shut.

    Like I told another poster - I'm sure you'll win this one.

    To claim that SC adopted the flag for racist purposes tells me all I need to know. You're intent on repeating the propaganda, no matter what.

    There are actually more than one flag of the Confederacy and none of them symbolize racism to the South in general. Only to small extremist groups.

    You will believe what you will believe and no amount of history will change that.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorgasm View Post
    Why doesn't she remove the flag and then they can debate/vote to put it back up?
    Might have to do with legislation enacted by the S Carolina Congress, huh? What is so difficult in grasping the concept that a governor just can't do what they want to.

    Of course.....if you had read the thread. Then you might not have had such difficulty in coming up with an answer to your own question, Right?

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Black Dog View Post
    Just take it down and be done with it.
    Mornin BD. Looks like they have set the date for July 4th.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by NIMBY View Post
    We continue to see leading GOP contenders for POTUS hide behind state's rights on the Confederate flag.

    What is not being addressed by everyone is the battle between state's rights and a strong central government.
    The overriding issue of our Nation since it was first formed--the tenth/civil war amendment.

    What I do see is Roof succeeding in his attempt to divide America--as evidenced on this board with the nonsensical back-and-forth posting .


    We continue to see the Managers from the Demos and DNP stoke up racism and Gun Control, while always looking to score political points off the deaths of others. Nothing new there with their so called High Morals.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by austrianecon View Post
    No the issue is a bigger then that. You have 9 states that issues Sons of the Confederacy Vehicle plates which has Sons of Confederate Veterans logo. You also have Mississippi and Georgia which have "star and bars" features. Then you Six flags over Texas.
    Mornin AC. Well the left got all caught up into their emotionality and didn't know what to do. So now all those States are next.

  9. #189
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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Why is there a necessity to assign blame? When did someone taking offense to something automatically demand that their offense be appeased?
    OK, so does a decent Southern person take down the flag or keep it flying high, and offending most of the blacks in that state?

    I can't point out to "whites in NYC" but I can point out to our 16th President.
    Right, but this same POTUS was an abolitionist, which is why BEFORE HE WAS INAUGURATED the South seceded in protest. You're trying to draw some equivalency between the person who would free slaves and those who fought a war to keep them enslaved.

    When did explaining the situation in context become excuse making?
    When you made excuses for Jim Crow, blaming it on the North and reconstruction without nodding to an embedded culture of white supremacy that lasted for decades after reconstruction and only ended after equal rights for black citizens was forced on them by the rest of the country.

    I imagine it would. Are you familiar with a gentleman named Anthony Johnson?
    So, you're pointing to outliers, the 1 in 1,000 or less, as evidence of some broader point?

    Right, you're relativizing it. I'm trying to paint a picture for you to understand where these people are coming from in its broader sense, you're making the mistake of taking one snapshot in time and basing an entire opinion on that when there is so much more to it.
    You're defending racism and the defense of white supremacy, from pre Civil War days through at least the 1960s. We know where they were "coming from" and that era and the romanticizing of it needs to end.

    And I'm not taking one snapshot in time. What I've pointed out is a culture of racism and white supremacy that stretches unbroken from pre-colonial days through my lifetime, and that didn't end until change was forced on the south by the rest of the country. That flag was raised on a flagpole in S.C. in the 1960s in defense of that racist, white supremacist culture.

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    Re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Might have to do with legislation enacted by the S Carolina Congress, huh? What is so difficult in grasping the concept that a governor just can't do what they want to.

    Of course.....if you had read the thread. Then you might not have had such difficulty in coming up with an answer to your own question, Right?
    I find it funny that you find it more important to attack me and defend big government bureaucracy. LOL

    What will they do to her if she orders it removed?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry
    The Amish are light-years ahead of the rest of the human race.



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