View Poll Results: Should the flag be moved-removed from all State Buildings?

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  • Moved

    5 7.14%
  • Removed

    46 65.71%
  • Stay where it is

    15 21.43%
  • Not sure

    4 5.71%
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Thread: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

  1. #111
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    Photos are indeed powerful. But you left some interesting ones out...
    [IMG]http://www.theblaze.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/Byron-Thomas.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_uYhwjSHoQ3k/Sqk6UBU1q_I/AAAAAAAAB2c/SoAgH0G--_8/s400/black_confederates.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://www.veteranstoday.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/01/h_k_edgerton_5.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000955160/battle_flag_xlarge.jpeg[IMG]http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaking-news-mainstream-media/breaking-news-mainstream-media/breaking-news-mainstream-media/

    See next post...
    Congratulations, you've found 3 dumb ass black people who don't realize that black confederate were either removed from their posts by the confederacy or actually slaves like those of Nathan Bedford Forest.

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    [IMG]http://www.texasconfederateveterans.com/BlackConfederates.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://i1.wp.com/thisiswarblog.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/xreu5qqt94xzwqc.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://i34.photobucket.com/albums/d131/sawaad/black4.jpg[IMG]
    [IMG]http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-O_wKzH_9tfI/Te3I1uNvHxI/AAAAAAAASqU/ZVA-r0uvSjs/s1600/Civil+War+black-soldiers.jpg[IMG]

    So are these men, across 150 years just pro-slavery racists?

    Or could it be that you are missing something? Like why they do what they do?
    Please, please read up on your history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Lo...uard_%28CSA%29

    The Native Guards were volunteers, and as such supplied their own arms and uniforms. These were displayed in a grand review of troops in New Orleans on November 23, 1861, and again on January 8, 1862.[7] They offered their services to escort Union prisoners (captured at the First Battle of Bull Run) through New Orleans. Confederate General David Twiggs declined the offer, but thanked them for the "promptness with which they answered the call."[8] The Louisiana State Legislature passed a law in January 1862 that reorganized the militia into only “...free white males capable of bearing arms… ”.[9]
    America’s Civil War: Louisiana Native Guards

    Praise was one thing; acceptance was quite another. Confederate leaders who had initially welcomed the prospect of black troops changed their stance in light of the growing influence of the abolitionists over the Federal government. In defending the propriety of slavery, Southern officials pointed to their long-standing argument that blacks were inferior to whites. Enrolling black troops on the same level as whites would tend to refute that argument to all the world, and the Confederacy opted to deny the Louisiana Native Guards the privilege of fighting for their new country.
    In short, they joined out of some weird sense of patriotism, then got told to **** off because the entire point of the Confederacy was enforcing the supremacy of whites OVER blacks. Just stop, you're about to look extremely stupid if you keep going down this absurdly revisionist road. The confederacy sought to enforce supremacy of whites over blacks. It's no surprise that 100 years later, the South was still resisting any sort of integration.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Get it yet?
    Nope. How can I when your responses to me go from 5000 word confused tomes to 3 word quips that only you would know the answer to.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  3. #113
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    Well, that's the thing with symbols. They mean different things to different people. No self respecting Southerner is advocating for slavery. No self respecting Southerner is opting for Jim Crow's return. Just like no self respecting Southerner is gonna let no god damn yankee bastard tell'em how they're gonna handle their own affairs.
    OK, I get that. But if that symbol just IS offensive to a large share of the population, a POLITE Southerner has a choice, don't they? They can acknowledge that the flag that was flown in defiance of equal rights for blacks as recently as the 1960s, is a common symbol for modern day racists, and is therefore REASONABLY and RATIONALLY offensive to blacks, and as polite Southerners acknowledge that and remove the flag as an act of common courtesy and respect for others.

    Or they can say, "to hell with anyone who's offended, I'll fly the GD flag if I want!" To me the former is a better reflection of Southern values than the latter

    Side note: I was just in Memphis and Mississippi this past March. Wonderful time. Black folks and white folks got along just fine. The friendliness to all toward all was amazing. Matter of fact, the only noticeable hostility I encountered was toward myself and wife from white people. The Ranger managing Shiloh NMBP became stone faced but polite when I asked him a question and he heard my accent and another from a waitress at a local restaurant, switched from friendly to cordial when realizing she was serving a couple Yankees...

    The thing I'm saying is that it is important to not push your narrative on others and call it right as they might see things in a completely different light. That's the kinda thinking that caused the Civil War in the first place.
    OK, you almost had me, but the kind of thinking that caused the Civil War in the first place was a deeply held belief in white supremacy, that blacks were inherently inferior and therefore properly subservient to and owned by whites. There is no alternative way to see slavery. Sometimes there is a clear right and wrong. Not often, but there is no benign prism with which to view slavery, or the following century of Jim Crow which was based on the same belief in inherent white supremacy, enforced by the state.

  4. #114
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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    But tariffs at the time of secession were at relatively LOW levels. I edited my original post - read that and the attached article and we can discuss further if you want.
    Wasn't another whether slavery would extend to the new territories/States?

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Congratulations, you've found 3 dumb ass black people.



    Please, please read up on your history:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1st_Lo...uard_%28CSA%29



    America’s Civil War: Louisiana Native Guards



    In short, they joined out of some weird sense of patriotism, then got told to **** off because the entire point of the Confederacy was enforcing the supremacy of whites OVER blacks. Just stop.
    I didn't realize you were the arbiter of black people, congrats.

    The point wasn't that if they were accepted into combat by the south, its that they were black men willing to risk their lives for the confederacy.

    The first pic I posted is of a young black man who went to court and won for the right to display the confederate flag in his dorm.

    Unfortunately you dont get to decide if what these men fought for is legitimate. Said another way you can go pound sand.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Wasn't another whether slavery would extend to the new territories/States?
    It was. And the 3/5th clause infuriated the south as well. But the north had the majority vote in congress and a greater population.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    It was. And the 3/5th clause infuriated the south as well. But the north had the majority vote in congress and a greater population.
    And the South was much richer than the North at that time, yes?

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    I didn't realize you were the arbiter of black people, congrats.
    Nope, but I can tell a dumbass when I see one. There are 3 dumbasses in your pictures. Out of 30 million black people in this country, you found 3 dumb enough to think the confederacy wouldn't have put their asses in chains if it had won. As I said, congratulations.

    The point wasn't that if they were accepted into combat by the south, its that they were black men willing to risk their lives for the confederacy.
    I know what your point was. Your point was to try and play some gotcha game by pointing at 3 black people who don't know what they're doing, and black "confederates" - who you didn't know were told to **** off because they'd be completely undermining the point of the confederacy. We get it. Your understanding of history is myopic at best, selective at worst.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    Quote Originally Posted by ChezC3 View Post
    This whole thing is ridiculous. This piece of polyester has done no more to cause this atrocity than the toilet paper in my bathroom.

    Does anyone call for Georgia to change their flag? To pull it down? Which minus the seal is the exact damn flag that was the first national flag of the Confederacy... What about Mississippi? Arkansas? Florida? Alabama?

    Hell, Six Flags is just gonna have to make due with 5 since one of them 6 was representative of the Confederacy, gots to go!!!

    The flag's removal is going to do nothing but incite racial animosity. One more thing taken away. That's what this will represent.

    Guarantee it.

    But in a superficial society which is more concerned with symbolism rather than substance, what should I expect?
    True - it did not cause the mass murders.
    True- many racist orgs/groups etc use this very "piece of polyester" as their flag.
    True- It represents a disgusting part of US history - Slavery.

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    re: Gov. Haley to call for removal of Confederate flag from Capitol grounds [W:154]

    It should not be flown on state grounds/public grounds. However if an individual wants to fly it at their private residence of at some sort of protest, etc they should have that right and do have that right.


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