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Thread: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

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    Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    From Bloomberg.com:

    Greek Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras has made an offer to European Union leaders he described as a “definitive” solution ahead of Monday’s emergency summit...

    The proposal was for “for a mutually beneficial agreement, which will give a definitive solution, and not defer the problem,” the statement said. Following an ongoing cabinet meeting today in Athens, Tsipras will fly to Brussels for talks with EU leaders.
    Greece Offers

    This concept almost certainly includes a degree of debt forgiveness given the reference to a "definitive solution." The IMF has been open to negotiations toward that end. The big questions concern whether private and public sector creditors would both participate and the amount involved. Some private creditors, as well as Germany, might be very reluctant to agree to any debt restructuring. Ultimately, such restructuring would need to be agreed through negotiations.

    If the Greek Plan seeks an immediate agreement on forgiveness, it likely won't get very far, unless the Greeks agree to accept negotiations toward that end in place of an immediate agreement. If the plan seeks a commitment to future negotiations on debt forgiveness, that position might not be a deal-breaker.

    Other big issues to be resolved include structural reforms, including tax and pension reforms. Nothing was mentioned about that angle in the early news story.

    So, at least for now, it's premature to know whether this new proposal offers a starting point for a possible breakthrough in the deadlock. As the day goes on, more details will almost certainly be reported.

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Mornin DS. Did Putin just throw in a monkey wrench? Any ripples from his announcement?




    Russia appears to extend aid hand to Greece.....




    Russia said Friday it would consider giving financial aid to Greece as the cash-strapped nation runs out of time to resolve its long-running debt crisis and avert an exit from the eurozone.

    Russian President Vladimir Putin's office also said Friday that Russia would consider giving loans to Greece, adding such aid should be considered par for the course for countries that are partners. Putin's office stressed Greece has not yet formally asked for any financial assistance from Moscow.

    Speaking earlier at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Tsipras said that Russia's role in the world was expanding and that Europe was misguided to think of itself as being at the center of the world. "The world is different from what it used to be in the past," Tsipras said. "We, in Europe, have for long had an illusion that we are the hub of the universe in the literal sense; we considered ourselves to be the world center and continued to see and count exclusively on our nearest immediate entourage.".....snip~

    http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/...isis/28973733/

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Best I can find from the usual sources (MarketWatch, CNBC, TheStreet, TheGuardian, BBC, etc.) the deal comes down to the following.

    Greece gets...
    • €18bn in immediate rescue funds, pledge for more later
    • Six month extension on bailout plans

    Greece has to give...
    • Concessions on fiscal targets established by the EU/ECB.
    • Pension cuts
    • Tax increases

    I do not see it happening, Alexis Tsipras ran and was elected on doing none of the "wants" from the EU/ECB (and Germany.) And Russia is a wildcard entry in this mess.
    "Every time something really bad happens, people cry out for safety, and the government answers by taking rights away from good people." - Penn Jillette.

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Best I can find from the usual sources (MarketWatch, CNBC, TheStreet, TheGuardian, BBC, etc.) the deal comes down to the following.

    Greece gets...
    • €18bn in immediate rescue funds, pledge for more later
    • Six month extension on bailout plans

    Greece has to give...
    • Concessions on fiscal targets established by the EU/ECB.
    • Pension cuts
    • Tax increases

    I do not see it happening, Alexis Tsipras ran and was elected on doing none of the "wants" from the EU/ECB (and Germany.) And Russia is a wildcard entry in this mess.


    Tsipras did, kind of tell it like it is to the Europeans, huh?


    Speaking earlier at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Tsipras said that Russia's role in the world was expanding and that Europe was misguided to think of itself as being at the center of the world. "The world is different from what it used to be in the past," Tsipras said. "We, in Europe, have for long had an illusion that we are the hub of the universe in the literal sense; we considered ourselves to be the world center and continued to see and count exclusively on our nearest immediate entourage.".....snip~ same link

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Tsipras did, kind of tell it like it is to the Europeans, huh?


    Speaking earlier at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Tsipras said that Russia's role in the world was expanding and that Europe was misguided to think of itself as being at the center of the world. "The world is different from what it used to be in the past," Tsipras said. "We, in Europe, have for long had an illusion that we are the hub of the universe in the literal sense; we considered ourselves to be the world center and continued to see and count exclusively on our nearest immediate entourage.".....snip~ same link


    2-26-15

    Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed the deal after talks with Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades.

    The deal comes as tensions between Russia and Western countries over the Ukrainian conflict continue.

    President Putin said that other countries should not be concerned and that the port's main use would be for counter-terrorism and anti-piracy.

    The island already hosts British military bases. Britain announced on Tuesday that it would be deploying troops to Ukraine as trainers.

    Tensions remain high between Russia and other European countries but the Russian leader was not concerned that the deal could be misconstrued.


    Cyprus signs deal to allow Russian navy to use ports - BBC News





    "Earlier this month, we reported that Greece is prepared to sign an MOU of political support for Gazprom’s Turkish Stream Pipeline, when Alexis Tsipras visits St. Petersburg for the International Economic Forum this week.

    The deal is a blow to Washington, which attempted to persuade Athens to support an alternative pipeline. In April, US State Department envoy Amos Hochstein met with Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzia to pitch The Southern Gas Corridor, a project which, when complete, will allow the EU to tap into Caspian gas via a series of connecting pipelines running from Azerbaijan to Italy. The corridor is aimed at breaking Gazprom’s stranglehold in Europe."




    "Since then, the situation between Greece and its creditors has deteriorated meaningfully. Athens is now reportedly set to delay a June 30 IMF payment for six months and faces the imposition of capital controls over what could end up being a “Lehman Weekend.” With his back against the wall, and with Syriza party hardliners apparently no closer to backing concessions, Tsipras looks set to once again play the ‘Russian pivot” card because as Kathimerini reports, a “working meeting” between the Greek PM and Russian President Vladimir Putin is now scheduled for Friday in St. Petersburg:"

    Russian Pivot: Greek PM Schedules Putin Meeting Ahead Of "Lehman Weekend" | Zero Hedge

    Was WWII about oil?

    Is Greece playing the super powers against each other?


    //
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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by Gladiator View Post
    2-26-15

    Russian President Vladimir Putin agreed the deal after talks with Cypriot President Nicos Anastasiades.

    The deal comes as tensions between Russia and Western countries over the Ukrainian conflict continue.

    President Putin said that other countries should not be concerned and that the port's main use would be for counter-terrorism and anti-piracy.

    The island already hosts British military bases. Britain announced on Tuesday that it would be deploying troops to Ukraine as trainers.

    Tensions remain high between Russia and other European countries but the Russian leader was not concerned that the deal could be misconstrued.


    Cyprus signs deal to allow Russian navy to use ports - BBC News





    "Earlier this month, we reported that Greece is prepared to sign an MOU of political support for Gazprom’s Turkish Stream Pipeline, when Alexis Tsipras visits St. Petersburg for the International Economic Forum this week.

    The deal is a blow to Washington, which attempted to persuade Athens to support an alternative pipeline. In April, US State Department envoy Amos Hochstein met with Greek foreign minister Nikos Kotzia to pitch The Southern Gas Corridor, a project which, when complete, will allow the EU to tap into Caspian gas via a series of connecting pipelines running from Azerbaijan to Italy. The corridor is aimed at breaking Gazprom’s stranglehold in Europe."




    "Since then, the situation between Greece and its creditors has deteriorated meaningfully. Athens is now reportedly set to delay a June 30 IMF payment for six months and faces the imposition of capital controls over what could end up being a “Lehman Weekend.” With his back against the wall, and with Syriza party hardliners apparently no closer to backing concessions, Tsipras looks set to once again play the ‘Russian pivot” card because as Kathimerini reports, a “working meeting” between the Greek PM and Russian President Vladimir Putin is now scheduled for Friday in St. Petersburg:"

    Russian Pivot: Greek PM Schedules Putin Meeting Ahead Of "Lehman Weekend" | Zero Hedge

    Was WWII about oil?

    Is Greece playing the super powers against each other?


    //

    Heya Gladiator. Well, they haven't been able to reopen the TAP line. You don' think they can count on the Turks, do you? The Greeks are definitely playing both sides.

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by MMC View Post
    Tsipras did, kind of tell it like it is to the Europeans, huh?


    Speaking earlier at the St. Petersburg International Economic Forum, Tsipras said that Russia's role in the world was expanding and that Europe was misguided to think of itself as being at the center of the world. "The world is different from what it used to be in the past," Tsipras said. "We, in Europe, have for long had an illusion that we are the hub of the universe in the literal sense; we considered ourselves to be the world center and continued to see and count exclusively on our nearest immediate entourage.".....snip~ same link
    So basically Greece has ended up with what they asked for originally, which the EU/ECB said NO to at the time; then Greece said they couldn't do what was demanded because they didn't have the money so they would have to default; so *voila* they get their rescue funds so they can make a payment on what they borrowed before, using money provided by the same people they already owe; plus the original stipulations from the EU/ECB are still in place - cut pensions and raise taxes - which they weren't willing to do in the first place, and I don't see them changing their mind now, but they do get another six-month extension. Am I up to speed on this, or am I missing some step along the way that got them to the here-and-now reality?

    Was all this necessary just to keep them from leaving the EU, or do the EU and the ECB fear that if Greece defaults, other indebted countries might also try the same thing? I'm inclined to go with the latter, since it's screwy enough to be an accurate guess. It's only money, right? Meanwhile, no one in Greece loses at the moment, so that's good for the people of Greece and their politicians, I guess.

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by polgara View Post
    So basically Greece has ended up with what they asked for originally, which the EU/ECB said NO to at the time; then Greece said they couldn't do what was demanded because they didn't have the money so they would have to default; so *voila* they get their rescue funds so they can make a payment on what they borrowed before, using money provided by the same people they already owe; plus the original stipulations from the EU/ECB are still in place - cut pensions and raise taxes - which they weren't willing to do in the first place, and I don't see them changing their mind now, but they do get another six-month extension. Am I up to speed on this, or am I missing some step along the way that got them to the here-and-now reality?

    Was all this necessary just to keep them from leaving the EU, or do the EU and the ECB fear that if Greece defaults, other indebted countries might also try the same thing? I'm inclined to go with the latter, since it's screwy enough to be an accurate guess. It's only money, right? Meanwhile, no one in Greece loses at the moment, so that's good for the people of Greece and their politicians, I guess.

    I think this affected everyone in Greece. From top to bottom. Should we care if the EU falls apart?



    Greek Crisis

    The 19-nation euro area has been under siege during more than five years of sovereign debt and financial crisis. Juncker’s report, long scheduled for release this month, comes as the bloc tries to prove that the crisis is history even though Greece’s struggles continue.

    Euro-area nations need to strengthen the banking union project that grew out of 2012 pledges to safeguard the common currency, the report says. It calls for “swift agreement” on bridge financing for the Single Resolution Fund, so it will be fully functional by its Jan. 1, 2016, start date even before there are enough contributions to bring it to full strength.

    In the longer term, the banking union will need “a credible common backstop,” perhaps through a credit line from the European Stability Mechanism firewall fund, the report says. It also calls for a European Union-wide deposit insurance system, and for countries to adopt a standard definition of bank capital and reduce national discretion.....snip~

    Juncker Urges Euro Area to Weigh Common Treasury by 2025 - Bloomberg Business

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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    "From a theoretical point of view, a country experiencing severe demand deficient unemployment, should seek to pursue policies to increase aggregate demand.
    •Expansionary fiscal policy – higher government spending and / or lower taxes
    •Expansionary monetary policy – lower interest rates, quantitative easing, printing money.
    •Devaluation of exchange rate. – Make Greek exports relatively cheaper, boosting domestic demand

    However, the difficulty is that in the real world, these three policies are all curtailed by membership of the Euro.

    Greece is actually pursuing a very tight fiscal policy – cutting government spending in an attempt to reduce the budget deficit. These spending cuts are making the recession worse and increasing unemployment. But, in the Euro, they feel they have no choice because the have no other way of funding their deficits. One policy option would require the EU to give even bigger bailouts or wipe out Greek debt to enable them to stop austerity. However, this would require a degree of political willingness we are unlikely to see."

    Policies to reduce unemployment in Greece | Economics Help
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    Re: Greece Offers ‘Definitive’ Plan to EU Leaders, Tsipras Says

    Quote Originally Posted by OrphanSlug View Post
    Best I can find from the usual sources (MarketWatch, CNBC, TheStreet, TheGuardian, BBC, etc.) the deal comes down to the following.

    Greece gets...
    • €18bn in immediate rescue funds, pledge for more later
    • Six month extension on bailout plans

    Greece has to give...
    • Concessions on fiscal targets established by the EU/ECB.
    • Pension cuts
    • Tax increases
    You're described the creditors' proposal which is a later development than the Greek one. Also, it should be noted that the creditors are proposing debt relief. The Guardian reported, "The negotiators representing Greece’s lenders are also proposing to pledge debt relief for the austerity-battered country – but officials stressed that a breakthrough hinged on a positive response from the Greek prime minister, Alexis Tsipras."

    Creditors offer Greece six-month bailout reprieve as Tsipras weighs response | World news | The Guardian

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