• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

I was thinking the same thing, the warden should put him in general population and the rest of the staff should be "distracted with other issues" when said GP decides to tee off on the little POS. I know I would pull a Sgt. Shultz if I were responsible for his safety.

you are aware of that judo instructor who raped and killed a 3 year old girl and what happened to him in that Brazilian prison within the last year or so

gotta go put a work bench together BBL
 
you are aware of that judo instructor who raped and killed a 3 year old girl and what happened to him in that Brazilian prison within the last year or so

gotta go put a work bench together BBL
No, hadn't heard of that one.
 
you want that bastard punished? good, so do I. Put him in the general prison population in a south carolina hard time penitentiary. the Death Penalty is too easy for someone like him. McVeigh got off easy too

I'm just saying that the likelihood of him getting the death penalty is offset by the fact that whites rarely get the death penalty for interracial murder. The odds are basically 10 to 1 in his favor. Sure, it can be argued that this falls under the 'special' cases area, however seeing how things are already evolving, I doubt it will. The guy is going to get a nice comfy cell in solitary confinement at some super-max. 3 square meals a day, 1 hour of federally mandated rec-time. I still can't believe the judge called the killer's family victims and asked people to rally around them. They ****ing gave him the gun. Directly or indirectly they facilitated his actions. That **** really was a slap in the face to the families.
 
so you have no rational argument other than its "god's house"

you are the one that has had a logical meltdown not me

you still cannot give us a rational reason why a church should have different laws than a mall, a truck dealership, a chain restaurant or a lingerie store

your opinion has no support and it is you that apparently has garment soiling problems since you seem to think Churches are immune to criminal attacks

Any mention in the Bible about Jesus carrying weapons into the Temple to pray?
Appears he had the same stance as I.
And yet you have refused to answer the questions I have asked.
Why is that??
 
The only person to blame for the 9 dead Black people in Charleston is the White racist who did the shooting.

Now if only our country could get this idea into their head for terrorists who happen to be Muslim.
 
No. There is no-one to blame for this other than the one pulling the trigger, and to a somewhat lesser extent those who knew and failed to stop him, those who taught him to hate, and those who believe the same things he does. There is no way no know, there is no reason to believe that any of those 9 people would have been carrying or if one of them was that it would have made a difference.

Please. Unarmed is dead, armed at least is fighting chance.
 
Any mention in the Bible about Jesus carrying weapons into the Temple to pray?
Appears he had the same stance as I.
And yet you have refused to answer the questions I have asked.
Why is that??

Dont know of any, but he did say something about selling your coat and buying a weapon.
 
I don't believe this article. If it were really illegal to carry a gun in church, this tragedy would have never happened.
 
Dont know of any, but he did say something about selling your coat and buying a weapon.
That passage is open for interpretation.
Then we have this.
Matthew 26:52
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound.

No it's not. The NRA frequently argues (correctly) that gun laws do not disarm anyone has the will to carry one, even in defiance of the law.

If that's the case, then the legality or presence of any ban on guns within the church should've made no difference. If any of the church members wanted to bring a gun with him/her discreetly to the service, he/she could've done so.

Hopefully, after this incident, they will.
 
It's a little more complex than most realize.


In SC, you CAN carry a gun into a church IF you have permission from the Church.


After some incidents several years back, MANY churches now have armed security of some kind... in many cases, members with concealed carry permits who have been authorized to carry in the church. Some churches, like my old home church, authorized all members to carry if they have a permit.


This church chose not to.


It might have made a difference.... we can't say for sure, but at least the possibility would have been there.


I would question the NRA official's timing and wording a bit, as far as tact goes, but he's not entirely wrong.
 
No. There is no-one to blame for this other than the one pulling the trigger, and to a somewhat lesser extent those who knew and failed to stop him, those who taught him to hate, and those who believe the same things he does. There is no way no know, there is no reason to believe that any of those 9 people would have been carrying or if one of them was that it would have made a difference.

I agree, but in the mythical world of the NRA where more guns equals less gun violence, it is not a question of one parishioner carrying,...

They ALL should have been carrying guns and it was the pastors fault that they weren't. :roll:
 
I agree, but in the mythical world of the NRA where more guns equals less gun violence, it is not a question of one parishioner carrying,...

They ALL should have been carrying guns and it was the pastors fault that they weren't. :roll:



As I've said, the man's timing and choice of words was less than tactful.

But he wasn't entirely wrong.

At my old home church, any member with CCW is allowed to carry inside. We also have specific members as designated security who always carry concealed, including a retired LEO and a couple of vets. Odds that a Dylann Roof would have managed to shoot more than one person at any service at our church would have been very iffy.
 
While I don't think they should be required to intervene physically(I would never advocate that). I think if someone has knowledge of prior intent and they do nothing, they should at least have some culpability. It may have been harsh to advocate accomplice charges because that would require a participation, there should be some minimal liability if a person has intimate knowledge of ill intent and says nothing until it is too late. In a lot of these mass murders, someone knew something and did nothing, there has to be some consequence to that IMO.

Couldn't agree more. When they were interviewing his two friends on the news, and the friends were like, "Yeah he said he was going to go shoot up a school," I started screaming at the TV, "THEN WHY DIDN'T YOU SAY ANYTHING??" They have blood on their hands, too, and should be held accountable.
 
Are you suggesting that these AA churches now allow CC into their churches and succumbe to their beliefs ?

As I've said, the man's timing and choice of words was less than tactful.

But he wasn't entirely wrong.

At my old home church, any member with CCW is allowed to carry inside. We also have specific members as designated security who always carry concealed, including a retired LEO and a couple of vets. Odds that a Dylann Roof would have managed to shoot more than one person at any service at our church would have been very iffy.
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church and how could anyone suggest that. They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.

If you had a loved one in the church at the time of the shooting, would you rather they were carrying a gun?
 
Are you suggesting that these AA churches now allow CC into their churches and succumbe to their beliefs ?



If they want to be secure in an uncertain world, either that or having designated armed security personnel.


It's no stretch to me... I've known for a long time, there is NO safety in this world except that which you create for yourself by your own efforts.



If you prefer to live out a philosophy of total-non-violence-pacifism, that is up to you... and you are the one who will reap the consequences of that choice.
 
If you had a loved one in the church at the time of the shooting, would you rather they were carrying a gun?

Tougher gun laws might mean they would be able to go to church and actually, I don't know - worship? - instead of getting their heads blown off.
 
Exactly right. The church had every expectation of safety here, they shouldn't have felt the need to carry to worship. This little prick decided on his own to "start a race war", and killed innocents in cold blood, there is nothing lower than what this little coward did.

I so agree with this. All of it.
 
Tougher gun laws might mean they would be able to go to church and actually, I don't know - worship? - instead of getting their heads blown off.

What law(s) do you believe could have stopped this from happening?
 
Tougher gun laws might mean they would be able to go to church and actually, I don't know - worship? - instead of getting their heads blown off.

I wonder how many folks will be looking at strangers in church tomorrow feeling uneasy?

And how do I reconcile my feelings that schools should have Home Rule on CC overriding state laws?

And then the awful scenario this could happen at any event where a large number of people are gathered as they exit the building .
 
If they want to be secure in an uncertain world, either that or having designated armed security personnel.
It's no stretch to me... I've known for a long time, there is NO safety in this world except that which you create for yourself by your own efforts.
If you prefer to live out a philosophy of total-non-violence-pacifism, that is up to you... and you are the one who will reap the consequences of that choice.

I don't have a problem with conservatives pointing out black-on-black crime in our crime-riddled cities EVERY weekend.
Yet I don't see solutions except to enforce existing laws--what are their plans to do that?
I've discussed this matter with TD extensively--our resident expert on the law/guns--I mean that sincerely.

My plan is to go into the most crime-ridden sections with a coordinated force of National Guard/State Police/City Police and cordon off one block at a time.
Go in about 5:00 AM when gangbangers are sleeping in and hung over from some drug cocktail.
Have the NG prevent anyone from entering and leaving--have the state and city police bring in dogs and all necessary armed equipment.
The NG would prevent any residents from escaping--and would search them for guns and drugs--those without FOIDs would be arrested.

You can imagine the uproar from minorities.
Minority leaders must be brought on board at the BEGINNING of this process--including the Silent Majority of minority folks who want this crime cleaned up.

CanadaJohn mentioned to me this is exactly what was done a few years ago in Toronto.
There comes a time when extraordinary solutions must be applied to extraordinary problems .
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church and how could anyone suggest that. They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.

:shrug: I've carried while in a Church, and I know plenty of folks that have. I don't recall seeing any militia's pop up, though in a military community you will get a lot of dudes who shave their head out of convenience...
 
Back
Top Bottom