• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

This is just another "Boy, if I had been there I would have kicked his arse" crap". He wasn't there and has no idea how it would have went down if he was. He may have crapped his pants too. Nobody really knows how they would have reacted in a situation as this. He may have been able to stop him from further shooting or he may have been the first shot. You can never be 100% safe in life.

Knew a guy who fought in Vietnam and after he killed his first Viet Cong he threw up. Not every thing is like how it is portrayed in the movies. Anyone ever have a fistfight like seen in a movie?

But your sequence of events is, he killed Charlie THEN threw up.

If killing people like Dylan Roof makes you like so be it, throw up all you want, just waste him first.

In 1994 there was a mass shooter at Fairchild AFB In Spokane, and an Air Force security policeman named Andy Brown (graduate of my high school as an unrelated note) killed the gunman with an impressive 70 yard pistol shot.

He in an interview later with Massad Ayoob admitted the killing took a toll on him. But the point was, it's ok to feel crappy later if you save lives first.
 
I left due to LaPierres "Jack booted thugs" comment. They definitely should rethink some of the things said. Still...while we can point to the occasional instance that is just radically over the top, the fact remains they DO actively stand for 120 million legal gun owners.

That was before I was even born I think, but what galls me is the NRA, blamed the sandy hook shooting on some 12 bit computer game for DOS no one had heard of... Looked like an idiot there, they blame mass shootings on mental illness which I agree with, but never explain what to do about or endorse legislation to attack that angle.

Then there's the complete silence after every shooting they have, they take down their facebook page and hide instead of suggest solutions and tell the media they're not responsible for what a criminal / psycho does
 
Today in America religion is frowned upon especially Christianity. Today in America gun ownership is on a dramatic increase. Today in America carrying guns on school campuses is being debated today in many states. Today in America open carry laws are being passed in several states. Today in America we turn on the television and watch movies we see many people gunned down every single day. Today in America you need to carry a weapon to protect yourself regardless of "no carry zone".rules. Better alive than dead.
 
If the good reverend had given his consent to members to carry concealed weopons, it's possible someone would have been armed other the Mr. Roof. Not defending the NRA board member personally, just his logic, which is sound. The fact that he's right and touched a nerve is why his comments are getting such a visceral reaction from the anti-gun crowd. They just can't acknowledge that people who have the ability to defend themselves stand a better chance of not getting shot than those who don't. Seems like common sense, but then maybe I expect too much from liberals.

It's not visceral hatred of guns, it's putting blame on the shooter.

Comments like this politicizing the tragedy are every bit as bad as the President doing so.
 
Just scanning the forum, we have tons of threads on this issue. Here's what happened:

Some hateful asshole decided to go into a church and kill 9 people in the name of racism.

Here is who's fault it is NOT:
1) Whites
2) Blacks
3) People who support gun rights
4) People who do not support gun rights
5) The NRA
6) The Brady Campaign
7) Guns
8) Bullets
9) Obama
10) Bush
11) The Pastor
12) The parents of the shooter
13) Muslims
14) Jews
15) The French
16) Anyone other than the shooter

And here who is responsible for the killings:

1) The shooter

Let's all show some logic and common sense and NOT hypocrisy and place the blame where it belongs. No one forced him to kill those people and ease of access, if that is what was there, STILL does not place blame anywhere other than with the shooter.

If it is true that the parents of the shooter bought this kid the gun he used and gave it to him for a birthday present, then they share some blame in my book. Perhaps what they did wasn't criminal, but it is easily one of the stupidest things anyone has done in a long, long time. But other than that, yes, the one responsible here is the shooter.
 
Oh, I know. I'm just not holding my breath seeing the judge's history and performance so far. In a crime where the ONLY victims are 9 black people, he thought it appropriate to also comfort the killer's family. That doesn't give me much hope.

Well will this judge even be the trial judge? This judge is certainly a doofus but in the trials I've watched before (admittedly all in Washington but still) the bail hearing is conducted by a rotating schedule of judges. And a trial judge is assigned at a later date, very rarely are these the same judges unless the county is really small. Maybe in SC it's different. But I would look into it
 
If it is true that the parents of the shooter bought this kid the gun he used and gave it to him for a birthday present, then they share some blame in my book. Perhaps what they did wasn't criminal, but it is easily one of the stupidest things anyone has done in a long, long time. But other than that, yes, the one responsible here is the shooter.

Well it's now coming out the parents didn't actually buy him a gun, they have him a few hundred bucks for his birthday and he bought it at a sporting goods store, evidentially the charges for felony drug possession weren't reported to NICS so he passed the background check
 
Today in America you need to carry a weapon to protect yourself regardless of "no carry zone".rules. Better alive than dead.

There is some sense in that sentiment. My 80 year old mother in law carries a handgun in her purse. She has for years. No one would suspect the tiny woman of being a crack-shot, but she is. I pity the Dylan Roof who decides to go postal in her company.
 
Well it's now coming out the parents didn't actually buy him a gun, they have him a few hundred bucks for his birthday and he bought it at a sporting goods store, evidentially the charges for felony drug possession weren't reported to NICS so he passed the background check

OK. Thanks for the clarification
 
It really bothers me that the NRA jumped to the politics of the issue almost as quickly as the President did. Confirms for me my decision to leave the NRA I made a few years back.
 
The NRA board member doesn't seem to understand the notion of responsibility. The blame on this matter is solely on the shooter.

Yes, the blame for the shooting is solely the responsibility of the shooter, but people should take responsibility for their personal welfare, including defending their lives and those in their charge.
 
So, Cotton blames pasture because he voted to not want guns in churches on a piece of legislation. Not surprising at all.
 
The NRA is the most vile and disgusting organization in this country. Who in the hell wants to carry a gun to worship in church....

You mean besides the bad guys? No one really wants to carry guns to church, but have you noticed that houses of worship, like other "gun-free zones," have become targets for "troubled souls" in recent years?

... and how could anyone suggest that.

Because, unlike the folks in Charleston, some people take action to avoid becoming victims:

A gunman attacked worshippers at a Colorado Springs, Colorado, megachurch Sunday afternoon, killing one person and wounding four others before being killed by a security staff member :shock:, the city's police chief said.

Gunman killed after opening fire at church - CNN.com

They use every tragic event to promote their insane ideology. This group appeals to militia idiots and skin heads.

Actually, folks at the NRA feel compelled to respond, because they've figured out that the gun grabbers will waste no time trying to make political hay out of these tragedies:

“Now’s the time for mourning and for healing, but let’s be clear — at some point we as a country will have to reckon with the fact that this type of mass violence does not happen in other advanced countries,” Obama said.

Read more: Obama Calls For Gun Control After Charleston Shooting | The Daily Caller

Yeah, now's the time for mourning and healing, BUT.... :roll:
 
The point, made by most, is that the criminal alone is responsible for their criminal acts.

Yes. I agree the criminal bears responsibility for his acts, but, as I said, people should take responsibility for their own defense.

I doubt whether any of the SC church victims would have been armed even if the law had allowed for it.

Perhaps not, but since they weren't the outcome was preordained.

To assert that gun free zone laws/signs cause (attract?) crime is just as silly as saying that no dumping signs cause (attract?) roadside dumping.

Your analogy makes no sense. The dumper knows no one is there to stop him, so the sign does not serve as a deterrent. On the other hand, if someone has a generic "These premises are protected by a 24-hour monitored alarm" a smart burglar will move on. There's a reason people don't dump in inhabited areas, and I've never seen anyone dump their crap at a police station.
 
Also this type of violence is very rare, even though the media will pith it for ratings, fact is, church and school and theaters are way to safe statistically for that to be a valid argument

Yes, it is rare. We don't hear much about the people who successfully use firearms to prevent tragedies, such as the Uber driver in Chicago who used a gun to disable a man firing into pedestrians:

Authorities say no charges will be filed against an Uber driver who shot and wounded a gunman who opened fire on a crowd of people in Logan Square over the weekend.

The driver had a concealed-carry permit and acted in the defense of himself and others, Assistant State's Attorney Barry Quinn said in court Sunday.

A group of people had been walking in front of the driver around 11:50 p.m. Friday in the 2900 block of North Milwaukee Avenue when Everardo Custodio, 22, began firing into the crowd, Quinn said.

The driver pulled out a handgun and fired six shots at Custodio, hitting him several times, according to court records. Responding officers found Custodio lying on the ground, bleeding, Quinn said. No other injuries were reported.

Uber driver, licensed to carry gun, shoots gunman in Logan Square - Chicago Tribune

We don't know what would have happened without this armed citizen. I doubt it would have been good. Perhaps we would have had Obama talking about another mass shooting and the need for more gun control.
 
This is just another "Boy, if I had been there I would have kicked his arse" crap". He wasn't there and has no idea how it would have went down if he was.

Well, no, that's not what he said. Here's what he said:

"Eight of his church members who might be alive if he had expressly allowed members to carry handguns in church are dead," Cotton wrote.

I understand it's speculation, but he's correct.
 
It was only a matter of time before somebody on the right figured out a way to blame the black people involved in this. The judge opened up the hearing today by first expressing sympathy for the shooter's family. That should give you some insight on how this is gonna go down. I wouldn't be surprised if by next week we hear that Roof had a really tough childhood.
Considering most Americans had a tough childhood, I'm sure we will. It's not relevant.
 
But your sequence of events is, he killed Charlie THEN threw up.

If killing people like Dylan Roof makes you like so be it, throw up all you want, just waste him first.

In 1994 there was a mass shooter at Fairchild AFB In Spokane, and an Air Force security policeman named Andy Brown (graduate of my high school as an unrelated note) killed the gunman with an impressive 70 yard pistol shot.

He in an interview later with Massad Ayoob admitted the killing took a toll on him. But the point was, it's ok to feel crappy later if you save lives first.


My point is that some people confuse movies with reality. You just don't know how quick you can react with a flood of adrenaline. Just recently there was the reserve cop who grabbed his pistol instead of his taser with his flood of adrenaline. Walter Mitty may think he could become Rambo or one may freeze at such a shock of events.

Have always wondered in such situations such as the shooting at Virginia Tech when it is apparent you are probably going to get killed why someone didn't try to jump him and others join in. That would most likely reduce the number killed. But that is easy for me to say because I wasn't there, hell I might have just peed my pants.
The NRA spokesman should have kept his thought to himself at this time.

As for the FAFB story , that was truly amazing the young airman was able to stop him at 70 yards with a pistol. Actually that is beyond amazing.
 
Well it's now coming out the parents didn't actually buy him a gun, they have him a few hundred bucks for his birthday and he bought it at a sporting goods store, evidentially the charges for felony drug possession weren't reported to NICS so he passed the background check

Why Roof's felony drug possession wasn't reported needs an answer.
 
Oh, I know. I'm just not holding my breath seeing the judge's history and performance so far. In a crime where the ONLY victims are 9 black people, he thought it appropriate to also comfort the killer's family. That doesn't give me much hope.
The victim's family may actually be good folks, you never know on that type of thing, there was actually a guy arrested for a murder here who came from a fantastic family of hard working farmers. However, I agree with you, the murderer's family is the lowest on the priority list right now.

EDIT - The shooter's family instead of victim's. Can't believe that one slipped through.
 
Last edited:
Oh look a Republican-in-hiding declaring that all we need is "More guns".

Total insanity. The kid had a gun because his lunatic Republican father gave the nut racist a pistol for his birthday (the father should be arrested). We need NO handguns being legal and hunting rifles ONLY with permits ONLY.
 
Why Roof's felony drug possession wasn't reported needs an answer.
Yes it does, while I think the GCA was a horrible bill and permanent prohibitions based on arbitrary felony time are ridiculous there is a law in place and an omission rendered it useless.
 
Back
Top Bottom