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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Short answer? No. I don't think anyone wants to live in an uncivil society where they feel a need to be armed. They also probably wish we didn't need firemen and emergency rooms and all the other things we hope we'll never use. But we should keep in perspective that, even as open carry and castle doctrine laws have proliferated, violent crime, including homicide, has been trending down. While these mass shooting are still relatively rare, a common thread in many of them is that the perpetrator was "troubled" or suffered some sort of mental illness. That's where we should be focusing our efforts.
    In bold. Here we completely agree. Something I've been saying for a long time. That's part the larger issue that I was suggesting in my other post.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I don't blame the gun. It is not the gun's fault. The gun is nothing but a tool.
    No its actually a weapon designed and constructed to make killing easier, which of course it does in the US far more frequently than in other developed nations

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by flogger View Post
    No its actually a weapon designed and constructed to make killing easier, which of course it does in the US far more frequently than in other developed nations
    What you've described is still a tool.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Cotton might be "insensitive" and a "monster," but he's got a point: Another mass shooting in a "gun free zone."
    Yes, why not allow a gun in a house of worship. That must be the most normal thing, right? Jesus must have said this, arm yourself to the teeth in the house of the lord. I doubt Jesus, a man of peace would have thought it was the right thing to bring an instrument of death into a church.

    And these people where surprised by the actions of this idiot, no person with a gun would have most likely stopped him. Maybe it would have given him another weapon to turn on people.

    So sad that they actually try to blame the priest for not allowing gun in his church. Sick, totally and utterly sick.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    What you've described is still a tool.
    A tool for what exactly ? Moving small pieces of lead around at high velocity into people ?

    Sorry but thats a weapon. Most infants here when shown a gun know that its a weapon and what its for.

    Trying to make it seem somehow more benign by describing it as a tool is being wilfully disingenuous about its true purpose. Its often used in order to try and justify the guns bizarre pseudo religious status within your society.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ok now you've truly baffled me. You'll accept that barring guns from certain places means there will be nobody armed to stop the bad guy, or you'll accept the opposite?

    Can't do both without violating causality and sending the entire Universe down a wormhole, so answer carefully.
    What I am saying is this - we as a people have a right to decide that there are places like schools where no person other than armed security should bring guns there. Airports and government buildings like courts would be another such example. In addition, there are private buildings that can decide for themselves that issue.

    If a person attempts to kill people in that setting and a customer or visitor stops them with their own gun that they were not suppose to have I would welcome their intervention if it saved lives, hurt no other people and look at it as a practical and realistic event which happened despite the written law.

    Did they violate the law? Yup. Did they do what they were not suppose to do? Yup. But given the circumstances of an emergency situation and the positive result that ensued in saving lives - that can be overlooked.

    I would consider such an event to be the rare exception to the rule and something which is fairly rare and not something which should guide us in setting policy because of that.

    However, as a matter of law and as a matter of what kind of society we live in - I support such designations where appropriate. I am on record as agreeing with the NRA that there should be armed security on duty at every school in America. I support such a proposal and think it is a way to avoid turning American and every place in it into some 21st century version of the mythic Old West where everybody walks around armed until they end up on Boot Hill. I believe that - in the end - such society will only have more deaths and more killings and more suffering and the policy would do more harm than good.

    Is that a contradiction? perhaps it is in a way if you are looking for a "gotcha" moment. I think not however. What I advocate as public policy and what I can tolerate and look the other way at in a very rare exception turned out positively - I believe - are two different things that are simply practical and pragmatic.

    I can think of other examples - I support speed limits and enforcement of them but if a person is rushing someone in great distress to a hospital and they exceed that speed limit - I can look the other way providing they injure nobody in the process.

    I believe in realistic pragmatism and looking at exceptions as rarities and not something to set public policy by or for.

    I hope that answers your question.
    Last edited by haymarket; 06-22-15 at 06:59 AM.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    LOL driving on a track is far different than driving in a city environment. and I couldn't care less what you find as legitimate proof. and i know how a helmet works far better than you understand anything to do with guns or gun laws.
    Sure it's different on a race track, but it doesn't affect whether a helmet greatly reduces the risk of death in a crash (it does), and about 30,000 people die each year in car accidents off the race track, versus statistically zero per year in church attacks in "a Loughner." So if you're trying to reduce your risk of death, which activity should a rational person focus their attention on - driving or sitting in a church pew?

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Sure it's different on a race track, but it doesn't affect whether a helmet greatly reduces the risk of death in a crash (it does), and about 30,000 people die each year in car accidents off the race track, versus statistically zero per year in church attacks in "a Loughner." So if you're trying to reduce your risk of death, which activity should a rational person focus their attention on - driving or sitting in a church pew?
    your argument is ridiculous-next you will say kids drowning in buckets can be stopped with SCUBA gear.

    lets get back to the silly anti gun nonsense

    BTW do you support the HUGHES AMENDMENT

    lots of people who say the statistics of church shootings do not justify parishioners being armed support a ban based on two crimes in 50 years of the 250K legal machine guns in civilian (Non LEO Civilian) Hands
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Your point is not logical since it is speculative. If someone there had a gun, that does not mean that what happened would not have happened.
    It's logical that if one has a means of defense an attack can be halted in its tracks, because we've seen it happen, most recently in the Texas cartoon attacks in which we ended up with two dead perps and zero dead cartoonists. An outcome does not have to be certain to make sense. It's speculation that the Secret Service can prevent the assassination of the President, so would it be logical to remove his detail?
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    your argument is ridiculous-next you will say kids drowning in buckets can be stopped with SCUBA gear.
    LOL. You're trying very hard to ignore a simple point. BY FAR the greatest risk you'll take going to church is getting in your car and driving there, which is 1000s of times greater than the risk of attack by anyone while in the pews or during Bible study.

    lets get back to the silly anti gun nonsense

    BTW do you support the HUGHES AMENDMENT

    lots of people who say the statistics of church shootings do not justify parishioners being armed support a ban based on two crimes in 50 years of the 250K legal machine guns in civilian (Non LEO Civilian) Hands
    OK, so you'll do anything to avoid responding to a simple point. But to answer your question, I'm indifferent to the Hughes Amendment. I haven't given the issue 1 minute of reflection in the past decade.

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