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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    uh that is because the few times someone tried to do something stupid in the USA the passengers beat the living crap out of him. The remain passive and comply with the hijacker protocol went out the window

    BTW those bans really worked on all those jihadi pilots who have taken out several hundred in the last couple of years hasn't it
    So what do you suggest....ban pilots? How about we start taking mental illness a lot more seriously, instead?

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So what do you suggest....ban pilots? How about we start taking mental illness a lot more seriously, instead?
    I am all in favor of taking mental illness more seriously

    but you all apparently ignore the balancing act

    we have a thing called Doctor-Patient privilege

    we also want people getting treatment

    you see if a guy who owns guns knows that if he tells his doctor he has some issues-be they ones that indicate he really could be a threat or not-that the doctor is going to tell the police and the police are going to take his guns away do you think it might deter people from seeking mental health treatment?

    a doctor has a duty to tell the authorities (I know, I defended a VA doctor who was being sued for telling the VA police that one patient told the doctor that he wanted to kill another patient and how he was going to do it) if a patient is a clear and present danger to another such as the case i described. but a doctor cannot tell the authorities that someone merely is suffering PTSD or depression

    and lots of privacy advocates oppose making non-court ordered mental health records part of the NICS data base.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
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    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I carry a SIG or a SW.
    You allegedly carry one of those. I've seen no proof of it....

    a helmet interferes with your ability to see what is going on in a car. It cuts down on your vision. so your suggestion is moronic. I don't have any detrimental effects from packing a gun to my ability to survive an attack
    You're doing it wrong - the open part of the helmet goes in front. Worn that way you can see all your mirrors just fine, and a small turn of the head is all that's needed to check your blind spot. And the helmet protects your head in a crash, hence why racers all wear them.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You allegedly carry one of those. I've seen no proof of it....



    You're doing it wrong - the open part of the helmet goes in front. Worn that way you can see all your mirrors just fine, and a small turn of the head is all that's needed to check your blind spot. And the helmet protects your head in a crash, hence why racers all wear them.
    LOL driving on a track is far different than driving in a city environment. and I couldn't care less what you find as legitimate proof. and i know how a helmet works far better than you understand anything to do with guns or gun laws.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    I am all in favor of taking mental illness more seriously

    but you all apparently ignore the balancing act we have a thing called Doctor-Patient privilege
    Of course it's a balancing act, I never said it wasn't.

    we also want people getting treatment

    you see if a guy who owns guns knows that if he tells his doctor he has some issues-be they ones that indicate he really could be a threat or not-that the doctor is going to tell the police and the police are going to take his guns away do you think it might deter people from seeking mental health treatment?

    ..a doctor has a duty to tell the authorities (I know, I defended a VA doctor who was being sued for telling the VA police that one patient told the doctor that he wanted to kill another patient and how he was going to do it) if a patient is a clear and present danger to another such as the case i described. but a doctor cannot tell the authorities that someone merely is suffering PTSD or depression

    and lots of privacy advocates oppose making non-court ordered mental health records part of the NICS data base.
    As a private person I can understand why they wouldn't....but I think it should depend on the severity of the diagnosis. Depression and PSTD patients seem to be more of a threat to themselves whereas a diagnosis of psychosis and depending on the severity can become a threat to an entire community if not treated and monitored regularly.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Of course it's a balancing act, I never said it wasn't.

    As a private person I can understand why they wouldn't....but I think it should depend on the severity of the diagnosis. Depression and PSTD patients seem to be more of a threat to themselves whereas a diagnosis of psychosis and depending on the severity can become a threat to an entire community if not treated and monitored regularly.
    judicial determination of mental incompetence has the requisite safeguards of due process and the ability to be heard. I like it that way

    and if a patient tells a doctor he plans on say killing his boss or ex wife, the doctor has a duty to consult the authorities
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    judicial determination of mental incompetence has the requisite safeguards of due process and the ability to be heard. I like it that way

    and if a patient tells a doctor he plans on say killing his boss or ex wife, the doctor has a duty to consult the authorities
    I think I can agree with that.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    If it is wrong to blame all gun owners and constitutional gun ownership rights for the criminal and mental actions of a few, why is it okay to blame someone who's a victim and who chose to exercise his rights by not having guns around for the criminal and mental actions in this incident?
    Again, I don't think "blame" is the proper word. As others have said, the blame lies squarely with the perp. I don't view it as "blaming the victim" for merely pointing out these people might still be alive today if they had had a realistic means of defense.

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Right now, in America, you have the most divided citizenry I've seen in a long time and rather than a new age of racial harmony since the election of President Obama, you seem to have greatly heightened racial tensions in many areas of your country.
    Ironic, isn't it? Obama was supposed to be this unifying force for racial harmony, but he seems to have a penchant for inserting a heated dagger into the race card he plays at every opportunity, beginning with the Henry Louis Gates incident in 2009 when it would have been better if he'd just kept his mouth shut. Nelson Mandela he's not. If Obama had been the President of South Africa the Springboks would have been toast.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Live by the gun, die by the gun.
    I dunno about. The Israelites built their kingdoms through general ass kicking and plundering, albeit with swords instead of guns and an assist where necessary from God. When they died it was usually because their enemies had more swords than they did.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    True, but if things go south don't blame the gun and the larger society and say that we should all be lambs to be led to slaughter while "forgiving" the wolf. Personally, I'll leave the forgiveness part to God and Jesus.
    I don't blame the gun. It is not the gun's fault. The gun is nothing but a tool. The fact that these things happen more frequently, these days, DOES denote that something larger is going on. And remember... when things go south, don't blame the victims of the incident. They have no responsibility in getting killed.

    Relevancy and blame are separate issues.
    Yes and I separated them.

    I don't see pointing out a logical truth as laying blame. On the other hand, being alive instead of dead is relevant even if it's just based on speculation.
    Your point is not logical since it is speculative. If someone there had a gun, that does not mean that what happened would not have happened. If that was not a gun-free zone, it does not mean that what happened would not have happened. If that was not a gun free zone, it does not mean that anyone would have decided to carry. Your speculation has far too many ifs and steps for it to have any kind of secure logic.
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