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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

  1. #351
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But your dad likely had that weapon at church for a very simple reason: To guard against church vandalism.

    I can accept that, but that's different from having a gun as a member of your church Parrish just for the sake of having a gun.
    What exactly is wrong with having a gun just to have it? You know, people buy all sorts of things just to have them and I don't see any one of you giving them grief for it.

  2. #352
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    I hear what you are saying loud and clear...but you do not live in a society where one side get's their way all the time. We live in a society of all sorts of people with different beliefs about their personal safety. The problem lies, we cannot distinguish the kook from the responsible gun owner and it frightens people. I care about whether I am scary to others who live in society with me. No one has ever said anything about banning guns...they are a big part of our economy and ingrained in our culture. No one even wants them banned. We just need to be able to talk about solutions to problems as they arise without it getting hostile and unreasonable. Organizations like the NRA stir people up and place a barrier between reasonable conversation. When kooks and criminals outnumber the good folks, then I would consider walking around strapped. The "rambo" spirit must stop. It is embarrassing gun owners like me. I could never get my CC because I am subjected to background checks every year and would be ashamed to defend it because I may be lumped into the Ted Nugent or extremist mindset of gun owners. Responsible gun owners are participatory in gun violence solutions, not start immediately screaming "gun grabber" and shut down. These folks are disturbing..

    Oh dear, where to begin...


    1. Yes there are people who'd like to pretty much ban all guns. Some have said so on record. Not a majority view, but enough in positions of power to be worrisome.

    2. If you're more worried about what someone would THINK of you (having a CCW permit) than of considering whether you might need one and what the consequences of needing it and not having it could be, you aren't thinking on this matter seriously enough. Therefore maybe you're right, maybe you should stick with pepper spray.

    3. Why is a CCWer "scary", when 99% of the time you won't even know he has a gun? Concealed, remember. You've probably been around lots of folks and thought "what a nice person" and were totally unaware that they had a gun on them. Why be scared? Most of them would act to protect you if possible if something bad happened. We're not your enemy. Packing a gun doesn't make reasonable law-abiding persons more dangerous to innocents. The presence of guns doesn't make reasonable people just "snap".

    4. Does the NRA engage in a certain amount of "scarism" to drum up support and cash? Yup, they do. However, their positions are not entirely unreasonable... there ARE politicians and lobby groups working night and day to curtail gun rights and the only counter is to work night and day to support same... thus the NRA and its millions of members, not to mention the GOA, RKBA, JPFO, SAS, and so on...

    5. Yes, responsible gun owners are participatory in gun violence solutions... as long as those solutions do not violate the 2A, do not infringe on the law-abiding more than the lawless (hint few gun laws qualify) AND if the laws in question will actually have a substantive effect on criminal violence (again, very very dubious for most proposed new laws).

    5A: Most pro-gun folks have become very cynical about the anti-gun elements in government, with good reason. Many times we've compromised and were told "just this and no more"... and the ink was barely dry before the anti's were pushing their NEXT even more restrictive agenda-item. Terms like "common sense gun control" and "gun safety" have been misused to cover up laws that would ban entire categories of guns which are NOT commonly used in crime! The pool of trust has been peed in too often and we find we are rather disinclined to compromise any more... the anti's have given us no reason to be and plenty of reason to distrust them, and to expect them to abuse any power they are given.

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    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

  3. #353
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What did you think this was all about? You're talking to people that would rather have guns banned and are just coming up with solution to settle for less. It's pretty much douchebaggery from top to bottom.
    And it's leaping to cartoon conclusions too.

    When I posted "My decision to own a gun affects only me and those who might find themselves at the wrong end of it" in another thread, I was told that my comments were "disturbing" and "paranoid" and that using a gun looks a lot easier on TV.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064736191

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by JANFU View Post
    Ya call that an answer?
    it is to anyone who understands the issue
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    The same type of argument was used against "shall issue" CCW and failed miserably.

    There are tens of millions with CCWs now... some states have millions just in their borders of CCWers among their population.


    The predicted mass blood bath hasn't occurred, and available stats say that CCWers are law-abiding, restrained, and shoot the wrong dude less often than police.
    Let me be clear: I don't have a problem with honorable men and women possessing a gun. Never have. Unfortunately, whenever the issue of gun violence comes up the issue somehow gets twisted into these arguments of gun rights -vs- irresponsible gun ownership.

    The situation you described in your post #329...I can certainly understand your position. You made a personal choice to own and carry a gun which for you was the right thing to do. But I would hope you made that decision not merely because of the culture of gun ownership/usage in your family nor out of a sense of vengeance based on what happened to friends and family (I'm so sorry that happened to you and members of your community), but rather from the need to protect yourself from harm. I have no problem with people owning a gun for self-protection as long as they use them responsibility. It's everything else on the fringes of gun ownership that drives me nuts about this very sensitive topic.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ma'am, no offense, but that's like saying "When I say N------, I'm just talking about bad black folks not good ones".

    It's still offensive as it imputes mental illness in a general way towards those who exercise their Constitutional rights and are concerned about their safety in an uncertain world, particularly because it is so commonly used in a broad-brush general fashion by those on the other side of the debate.
    No offense taken, but when people stop using disturbing statements about taking the life of another, then the label will not apply. I have never heard a cop brag about kills or drawing their weapons, and they take that chance everyday. Everyone else who are responsible gun owners should follow that lead as well.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    What exactly is wrong with having a gun just to have it? You know, people buy all sorts of things just to have them and I don't see any one of you giving them grief for it.
    My perspective on gun ownership is self-protection and gun collection (enthusiast). I'm fine with both. But to buy one just to buy one as one would purchase a TV or microwave oven...not so much.
    "A fair exchange ain't no robbery." Tupac Shakur w/Digital Underground

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    And it's leaping to cartoon conclusions too.

    When I posted "My decision to own a gun affects only me and those who might find themselves at the wrong end of it" in another thread, I was told that my comments were "disturbing" and "paranoid" and that using a gun looks a lot easier on TV.

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064736191
    If you were not referring to using it on someone...what exactly did you mean by that statement?

  9. #359
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    No offense taken, but when people stop using disturbing statements about taking the life of another, then the label will not apply. I have never heard a cop brag about kills or drawing their weapons, and they take that chance everyday. Everyone else who are responsible gun owners should follow that lead as well.
    What was disturbing about this statement? "My decision to own a gun affects only me and those who might find themselves at the wrong end of it."

  10. #360
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Hi.

    I've been carrying a gun for nearly thirty years.

    I've never committed a felony or shot someone unlawfully or accidentally.

    I HAVE prevented a couple of attempted crimes by being armed and ready.

    My family has always owned and carried guns. Several of my family members have stopped crimes with guns. Some of my neighbors have also.

    We have yet to rack up a single suicide or accidental or unlawful shooting.

    But we've been damn glad to be armed on many instances.

    So... your mish mash of miscompared stats doesn't mean much to me.
    You're jumping into the middle of a longer discussion. Obviously in context the "miscomparing" was in response to Turtle, who compared having a fire extinguisher versus a gun in a dang church. It's apples and dump trucks comparison - they are NOTHING alike. Not in the risk of the event they protect against or the risk of the protection itself.

    And I don't really care all that much about your gun carrying history in this context. Obviously if you've been doing it for 30 years, you're probably well trained, competent, responsible, etc. Not everyone is like you. As I've said, I've seen MANY accidental discharges, and it's just luck the only injury was a guy who blew off the back of his own ankle. I accept those risks hunting or shooting targets because loaded guns and a mix of expertise of those handling them are integral to the activities.

    Any idiot with that can read at the first grade level can pass the exam to carry, and for all I know he's carried a gun for a week. If you allow guns into a church, that means you AND those idiots with a week of experience who might show up still drunk from the night before, or are whack jobs, etc. How am I supposed to tell him from you? If I know you, and I'm sitting next to you in church or anywhere else there's probably little worry. But that tells me nothing about some stranger who comes in who I've never met. There's no good reason to trust that a random stranger knows what he's doing, or that his wife's gun in her purse can't be pulled out by her kids while she's taking communion.

    The point is there is no reason for someone worshipping to spend one SECOND worrying about that to prevent something about 15 times less likely than getting struck by lightning, 0.0000001% or so. If I thought I needed protection every day from events of that likelihood, I'd wear a helmet into the dang shower, and nearly all the rest of the time not sitting at my desk. Instead I just wear one while biking on the road....

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