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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

  1. #341
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    Many hard line, gun owners are offensive as well....I think I clearly defined my definition of a gun nut. If it doesn't apply to you, then don't take offense.

    Ma'am, no offense, but that's like saying "When I say N------, I'm just talking about bad black folks not good ones".

    It's still offensive as it imputes mental illness in a general way towards those who exercise their Constitutional rights and are concerned about their safety in an uncertain world, particularly because it is so commonly used in a broad-brush general fashion by those on the other side of the debate.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Ex-cop. Been Ex for a long time.

    My Dad was Church Treasurer. He was never in LE, though he was a WW2 vet. He carried a .38 snubnose to church, with the knowledge and consent of the pastor and Deacon board. So did some of the ushers. This was back when I was a kid, before easy CCW was even widely available in my state.

    And please do not use the term gun nut. It is offensive. Most gun owners are not mentally ill.
    But your dad likely had that weapon at church for a very simple reason: To guard against church vandalism.

    I can accept that, but that's different from having a gun as a member of your church Parrish just for the sake of having a gun.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Well, because then all you've done is create this national state of paranoia. EVERYONE'S carrying a gun, but you don't know who. And so the moment someone takes a shot EVERYONE draws their weapon ready to "bust a cap" in somebody's ass. Do we really want to be that nation?

    Put another way: If you wanted to create a military state, well, there you'd have it. Only instead of it being controlled by law, you'd eventually get anarchy! Why? Because EVERYONE would feel falsely empowered to do whatever they wanted because they have a gun and, as such, they'd view themselves as being quicker on the draw, possessing more bullets than the next guy's gun, or his weapon is more lethal than his opponents. So much can AND WILL go wrong when you start arming the masses most of whom WILL use guns irresponsibly.


    The same type of argument was used against "shall issue" CCW and failed miserably.

    There are tens of millions with CCWs now... some states have millions just in their borders of CCWers among their population.


    The predicted mass blood bath hasn't occurred, and available stats say that CCWers are law-abiding, restrained, and shoot the wrong dude less often than police.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Well, because then all you've done is create this national state of paranoia. EVERYONE'S carrying a gun, but you don't know who. And so the moment someone takes a shot EVERYONE draws their weapon ready to "bust a cap" in somebody's ass. Do we really want to be that nation?

    Put another way: If you wanted to create a military state, well, there you'd have it. Only instead of it being controlled by law, you'd eventually get anarchy! Why? Because EVERYONE would feel falsely empowered to do whatever they wanted because they have a gun and, as such, they'd view themselves as being quicker on the draw, possessing more bullets than the next guy's gun, or his weapon is more lethal than his opponents. So much can AND WILL go wrong when you start arming the masses most of whom WILL use guns irresponsibly.
    You are projecting your delusions. This does not happen. Concealed carry owners are quite safe and a net benefit on society. You have probably interacted with plenty and never known it-thats the idea.

    Its an almost cartoon-like scenario you have running through your head.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But your dad likely had that weapon at church for a very simple reason: To guard against church vandalism.

    I can accept that, but that's different from having a gun as a member of your church Parrish just for the sake of having a gun.

    It's not just 'for the sake of having a gun'.


    It's for defending self, family and fellow members if some looney shows up.... as just happened in Charleston.

    It's for protection coming and going and wherever else you might stop coming and going.

    It's a serious matter, not simply a whim, for the vast majority of us.

    People who get CCWs without being serious about it tend to carry for a few weeks and then stop, because it is a bit of a bother. The ones who carry all the time long term are carrying because they have reasons to believe it is a necessary component of their security.

    Like me.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    But your dad likely had that weapon at church for a very simple reason: To guard against church vandalism.

    I can accept that, but that's different from having a gun as a member of your church Parrish just for the sake of having a gun.
    So wait--if someone carries for a reason of which you approve, this is okay--but not okay if it's for a reason you don't?

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    No doubt Goshin can shoot but so can I. I regularly out shoot my LEO friends.

    Why should my safety be compromised?

    Could someone else be harmed in me defending myself? Yes. Same for cops.

    Is that even more rare than the odds of needing to defend myself? Yes.

    The fact is in over 90% of cases just showing a gun will end the attack and in a mass shooting-lets just say there are bigger risks, like the guy walking around shooting people in the face.
    I hear what you are saying loud and clear...but you do not live in a society where one side get's their way all the time. We live in a society of all sorts of people with different beliefs about their personal safety. The problem lies, we cannot distinguish the kook from the responsible gun owner and it frightens people. I care about whether I am scary to others who live in society with me. No one has ever said anything about banning guns...they are a big part of our economy and ingrained in our culture. No one even wants them banned. We just need to be able to talk about solutions to problems as they arise without it getting hostile and unreasonable. Organizations like the NRA stir people up and place a barrier between reasonable conversation. When kooks and criminals outnumber the good folks, then I would consider walking around strapped. The "rambo" spirit must stop. It is embarrassing gun owners like me. I could never get my CC because I am subjected to background checks every year and would be ashamed to defend it because I may be lumped into the Ted Nugent or extremist mindset of gun owners. Responsible gun owners are participatory in gun violence solutions, not start immediately screaming "gun grabber" and shut down. These folks are disturbing..

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Why do people have to agree to gun control measures to be open to solutions? I don't consider placing barriers in front of people to practice their rights reasonable and I see no good reason to agree with it. I don't see why someone must pass some kind of government test to acquire a good from another person in trade, nor do I see why people should have access to less weaponry or pay more for certain goods because people are scared.

    And why does the government have to do anything about it again?

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by US Conservative View Post
    You are projecting your delusions. This does not happen. Concealed carry owners are quite safe and a net benefit on society. You have probably interacted with plenty and never known it-thats the idea.

    Its an almost cartoon-like scenario you have running through your head.
    You do have a point...the CC carriers are subjected to thorough back ground checks and have to demonstrate competency. They, for the most part are safe gun owners. They conceal it and don't strut around like wanna be tough guys. A true respectable gun owner will never tell you if they are carrying or not. They don't find it something to brag about.

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    So wait--if someone carries for a reason of which you approve, this is okay--but not okay if it's for a reason you don't?
    What did you think this was all about? You're talking to people that would rather have guns banned and are just coming up with solution to settle for less. It's pretty much douchebaggery from top to bottom.

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