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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

  1. #321
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Why would anyone think it's ok to bring a gun to church??


    Hi bro. 'Sup?

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    Because a church is a holy place. Common sense would tell you not to bring a weapon in to God's house.

    I'm not anti-gun in any way, but come on... really?


    Yes, really. Regularly, even.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  3. #323
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Oh dear. I guess I am a psychopath.


    I carry in church, where it is permitted... and frankly whether it is permitted is a factor in whether I attend that church.


    (Protip: I'm not a psychopath. I am however aware that churches are not protected by some mystic dome of peace that prevents bad people from targeting them... and just as I am not interested in being at the mercy of thugs and loonies when shopping at Walmart, ditto at church. See Luke 22:36.)
    No, but you are a trained professional (cop, I think I saw you post) and it is natural for a cop to have a protection mindset...cops are never off duty nor do they retire. LOL. Can't really compare to your average Joe or gun nut.

  4. #324
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    You don't care but you're posting about it...?



    My fear doesn't have to be rational to affect what a gun toting person does to my experience in church. Since the odds of a mass murder are approximately 0.0000001%, a reasonable choice for the church is to concern themselves with a welcoming and comfortable experience for all of their congregants.



    Great, and unless I know you very well, and perhaps even if I do, you'll leave your gun in the car at my house.


    OK, there are about 375,000 house fires per year that kill 2,500 per year, injure another 12,000. Extinguishers are cheap and I've NEVER heard of one killing even one person when misused, so the downside of having 100 in your house (besides unsightly) is zero. Guns kill about 30,000 per year. So it's completely different in every possible way than carrying a gun to church to prevent, if all goes perfectly, 1 or 2 shooting per year.

    And if you don't need flood insurance don't buy it, but that doesn't pose even a slight risk to anyone, unless you pull it out and inflict a paper cut with the policy, or burn it....

    Your logic isn't all that good tonight.



    I'm not sure what the point is. Some guy decides to spend $10,000 (or more???) to outfit his car with a NASCAR caliber crash system to keep him safe on his commute can laugh at you for driving your regular car to work by pointing to the 10s of thousand of traffic deaths. Does that make you irrational for NOT outfitting your Lincoln or Audi with the same restraint system Dale Jr. uses at Bristol Motor Speedway?


    Hi.

    I've been carrying a gun for nearly thirty years.

    I've never committed a felony or shot someone unlawfully or accidentally.

    I HAVE prevented a couple of attempted crimes by being armed and ready.

    My family has always owned and carried guns. Several of my family members have stopped crimes with guns. Some of my neighbors have also.

    We have yet to rack up a single suicide or accidental or unlawful shooting.

    But we've been damn glad to be armed on many instances.



    So... your mish mash of miscompared stats doesn't mean much to me.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
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  5. #325
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    Society will always experience a outlier of behavior, but we can at least try something to deter the 1%....we can't save everyone but we are seeing too much now.
    The thing is, those outliers in the statistics won't be deterred without a superior and definite force, that is the sad reality. Most of the less successful attempts at a mass shooting were stopped on site by an armed citizen, the more successful attempts happened where no opposing force was present. I am not by any means condemning a church choosing to be gun free BTW, I cannot state that enough.
    Last edited by LaMidRighter; 06-21-15 at 03:00 PM.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    Let's put both Bible versus into perspective.

    In Matthew 26:52, Christ was essentially saying that anyone who takes up a weapon for vengeance will eventually die from such a hate-filled act. Or in short, "He who lives by the sword shall die by the sword."

    In Luke 22:36, Christ was instructing his disciples to prepare themselves for the eventual persecution they would soon come to face. And thus, he gave them permission to buy weapons (swords) to defend themselves against the coming aggression IF they chose to do so. And as you know, none did.

    LaMidRighter,

    I understand what you're trying to do and can certainly empathize with your moral struggle on self defense (see his post #301), but what reference to these Bible verses goes to once again confirm is that man will use specific passages of scripture to suit their own purposes. Unless and until you place such verses in their proper context, you risk leading man down a very dark path.

    My advice to you: Guard against false witness, my friend.

    EDIT: Ask yourself, were the 9 victims at the AME church being persecuted for their religious belief? If your answer is NO (and if you're honest about why Dylann Roof carried out this terrible, horrific, inexcusable act then the only conclusion you can reach is NO), then it wouldn't have made sense for these church members to conceal carry in a place of worship for any reason whatsoever.
    I take the context to be simply that Jesus had the ability to condemn violence but also understand that it could be necessary to defend life.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    I don't keep the clip loaded or in the gun while not in use. So if the person was armed, I probably would not see it coming anyway. If they were not, I feel I would have a better chance of running or defending myself. It is hard to say, I have never had an instance where I feared anyone. No one can truly know. I would hate to shoot someone unarmed
    Im saying you cant run, you are in a room with one exit, maybe its the middle of the night and you heard the glass break downstairs. Maybe he's saying he's going to harm you. He will be in your room in under 10 seconds. Your phone is by the door, and even if it was in your hand and you had already dialed, the number is busy-and he's 10 seconds away.

    What now? And sadly, this isn't exactly uncommon.

  8. #328
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that is a silly response. mass shootings are extremely rare-be it churches, schools or movie theaters. Yet they happen enough for Democrats to want to ban semi auto rifles (used in less than 2% of all shootings) "high capacity" (the sign of dishonesty is using that term) magazines etc. If mass shootings are prevalent enough to call for stripping away the constitutional rights of millions then its far more reasonable for people to be armed as insurance against such shootings.

    I don't attend church save for funerals or weddings these days. I don't carry all the time-I always have a firearm in my car unless its illegal and the only reason why I have a gun on me now-at home is because the house across the street was the subject of an armed robbery (a very rare occurrence) and the robber has yet to be caught and I often am 100s of yards from my house due to the size of my property.

    but you would never ever know I had a gun. and if I was sitting in a pew next to you, you'd never know. So your claiming it would detract from your worship is just plain BOGUS. and that you appear to be afraid of people carrying guns is not my concern. If you are afraid to carry-DO NOT but stop judging those who do
    Bogus post nope - made sense - you just disagreed with a logical, well reasoned post.
    Yet you are the one crying to bring guns into a Church as it MAY, heavy on the may prevent a shooting.
    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    Hillary is the only defense I or anyone else needs.

  9. #329
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    No, but you are a trained professional (cop, I think I saw you post) and it is natural for a cop to have a protection mindset...cops are never off duty nor do they retire. LOL. Can't really compare to your average Joe or gun nut.

    Ex-cop. Been Ex for a long time.

    My Dad was Church Treasurer. He was never in LE, though he was a WW2 vet. He carried a .38 snubnose to church, with the knowledge and consent of the pastor and Deacon board. So did some of the ushers. This was back when I was a kid, before easy CCW was even widely available in my state.

    And please do not use the term gun nut. It is offensive. Most gun owners are not mentally ill.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Now all you need to do is show me where I am compromising the safety of others.
    By seeking to take away their ability to protect themselves with the guns they would use if they HAD them.

    Do I need to link to the testimony of that texas congresswoman who didn't bring her gun into a restaurant because of feel-good gun laws that you support?
    She could have stopped the gunman, instead she watched her parents executions.

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