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Thread: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

  1. #241
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Short answer? No. I don't think anyone wants to live in an uncivil society where they feel a need to be armed. They also probably wish we didn't need firemen and emergency rooms and all the other things we hope we'll never use. But we should keep in perspective that, even as open carry and castle doctrine laws have proliferated, violent crime, including homicide, has been trending down. While these mass shooting are still relatively rare, a common thread in many of them is that the perpetrator was "troubled" or suffered some sort of mental illness. That's where we should be focusing our efforts.
    I agree with you 100% that we need far far far more efforts in identifying and fighting mental illness.

    And you are correct that things like open carry and castle doctrines and more and more obsession with what the gun lobby inappropriately calls "gun rights" has prospered and thrived over the last decade or two. Which leads us back to the question i raised as to the type of society we want to live in. Quite frankly I really do not care one iota if every house in America has a gun in it and people have them in their cars and places of business as long as they follow the law. I accept that America is different regarding guns and it is part of our culture - for better or worse.

    But I am also very much against the growth in things like open carry and the announced purpose of some of the devotees of the practice to desensitize people to seeing guns in public - especially the more modern or more military looking weaponry that some sport with a macho pride. I truly DO NOT want to live in a more gun-centric USA.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    As I said above, you must assume that because you 'know how to use it' that others do. I don't make that assumption. And in a place as statistically as safe as a church, there is no reason for anyone, rational or irrational, to worry whether you do or don't know what you're doing. Worry whether your child will take it out of your wife's purse, and shoot me, you'll leave it on the back of the toilet, drop it, etc.



    OK, I guess, but so what?



    It was sarcasm. I don't believe your story that almost everyone in any area had carry permits or that it was why some area was safe from violent crime for 30 years. Criminals are typically very stupid people, as you know. That they knew this and accounted for it defies logic.



    Holy strawman Batman!! It's late and this discussion is deteriorating. I'll pass further comment tonight.
    so no, you cannot make a rational argument why a church is somehow not going to be attacked.

    statistically we just had a church attacked.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    I would say that since what COULD have happened is nothing but speculation with far too many variables to have any reasonable response, both Obama's and the NRA guy's comments were equally stupid.
    that's legitimate
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Peter Grimm View Post
    If the church is worried about crazies with guns storming in, hire an armed guard to stand outside. If you lack the common sense to know that it's totally inappropriate to bring a gun to church, I can't help you.
    your definition of common sense is not sensical to me. I guess I just don't find a church or parishioners much different than other assembly areas. No one has been able to explain why a church should be different than a school, a mall, a car dealership et c
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    But I am also very much against the growth in things like open carry and the announced purpose of some of the devotees of the practice to desensitize people to seeing guns in public - especially the more modern or more military looking weaponry that some sport with a macho pride. I truly DO NOT want to live in a more gun-centric USA.
    The impetus behind open carry laws was to close a loophole in concealed carry laws in which a person could be called to task if he inadvertently exposed his weapon in public. I agree that the sort of "in your face" parading of military-style weapons in public is probably not productive and was not the original intent of these laws.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    so no, you cannot make a rational argument why a church is somehow not going to be attacked.

    statistically we just had a church attacked.
    Speaking of statistics, I Googled on church violence: Ministry Violence Statistics

    From USA Today in 2013:

    "This is the norm in our world's culture and there's a need for security wherever we go nowadays," said Gilchriest, who oversees security efforts at Freedom Christian and also is the CEO of Opaque Security, an international company that trains churches and synagogues to protect congregations. "We need to be prepared."

    It is an increasingly common sentiment in churches, synagogues and mosques nationwide as the number of deadly episodes at sanctuaries has soared over the last decade, and mass shootings at elementary schools, malls and movie theaters have left Americans feeling like it could happen anywhere.

    Just last month, the federal government stepped in with a first-ever report outlining security recommendations for houses of worship. The 38-page plan, released just days after a man was shot and wounded during a Catholic Mass in Salt Lake City, advises congregations to plan for potential emergencies, including what police call random "active shooter" situations. Among the advice offered by the federal government: run, hide or, as a last resort, fight.

    Churches boost security as violent incidents grow

    From the CS Monitor in 2014:

    The shooting of two priests at a Phoenix church is the latest in more than 780 deadly attacks in US places of worship in the past 15 years. Priest killed: How often does violence enter churches? - CSMonitor.com

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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by SenorXm/Sirius View Post
    It's painful and very disgusting to see what the NRA of today has turned into when you compare it to the NRA of 40-50 years ago. Now they are nothing but a lobby for the gun manufacturers. They don't give a **** about anything, or anyone else.
    Actually, the NRA is a genuine grassroots organization of several million members that has stayed true to its core of sponsoring and supporting the shooting sports and training firearms instructors even while defending the individual right of Americans to keep and bear arms against organizations such as "Everytown for Gun Safety" that are really nothing more than "grassroots" fronts for people like Michael Bloomberg and their millions.
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    The impetus behind open carry laws was to close a loophole in concealed carry laws in which a person could be called to task if he inadvertently exposed his weapon in public. I agree that the sort of "in your face" parading of military-style weapons in public is probably not productive and was not the original intent of these laws.
    agree with all of the above. BTW NBC is whining about guns again as two black guests were supporting what Obama said
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    Time for real gun control
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    You too are a gun banner if you want ANY person banned from guns.

  9. #249
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Speaking of statistics, I Googled on church violence: Ministry Violence Statistics

    From USA Today in 2013:

    "This is the norm in our world's culture and there's a need for security wherever we go nowadays," said Gilchriest, who oversees security efforts at Freedom Christian and also is the CEO of Opaque Security, an international company that trains churches and synagogues to protect congregations. "We need to be prepared."

    It is an increasingly common sentiment in churches, synagogues and mosques nationwide as the number of deadly episodes at sanctuaries has soared over the last decade, and mass shootings at elementary schools, malls and movie theaters have left Americans feeling like it could happen anywhere.

    Just last month, the federal government stepped in with a first-ever report outlining security recommendations for houses of worship. The 38-page plan, released just days after a man was shot and wounded during a Catholic Mass in Salt Lake City, advises congregations to plan for potential emergencies, including what police call random "active shooter" situations. Among the advice offered by the federal government: run, hide or, as a last resort, fight.

    Churches boost security as violent incidents grow

    From the CS Monitor in 2014:

    The shooting of two priests at a Phoenix church is the latest in more than 780 deadly attacks in US places of worship in the past 15 years. Priest killed: How often does violence enter churches? - CSMonitor.com
    excellent

    what is pathetic is the sentiments of several posters who just assumed that churches are somehow different or that parishioners who carry other places are "psychopaths" to carry in a church or that someone else carrying in a church "diminishes" their worship experience". or finally that God will somehow make a church immune to criminal attack
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Time for real gun control
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    You too are a gun banner if you want ANY person banned from guns.

  10. #250
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    Re: NRA executive suggests slain Charleston pastor to blame for gun deaths

    Quote Originally Posted by Ahlevah View Post
    Actually, the NRA is a genuine grassroots organization of several million members that has stayed true to its core of sponsoring and supporting the shooting sports and training firearms instructors even while defending the individual right of Americans to keep and bear arms against organizations such as "Everytown for Gun Safety" that are really nothing more than "grassroots" fronts for people like Michael Bloomberg and their millions.

    in the 1960s, the Democrats adopted gun control to fight off charges that Democrats were weak on crime and the DNC used gun restrictions as a way of pretending they were DOING SOMETHING to fight crime without actually upsetting their large constituency block that tended to be hostile to crackdowns on street criminals. That forced the NRA to become the opposition to the scheme to scape goat gun owners that the Dems were engaged in
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    Time for real gun control
    Quote Originally Posted by vegas giants View Post
    You too are a gun banner if you want ANY person banned from guns.

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