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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Repeating the claim doesn't make it more true.

What about the Hughes Amendment proves your theory?

there was no criminal misuse of machine guns legally owned (2 cases out of several hundred thousand owned in 50 years and both involving cops who could get the guns even in states that ban them)

the entire purpose of the Hughes amendment was that Hughes was pissed that the overall bill was going to pass and it was pro gun owner

BTW it was not even properly passed but scum bags Rangel and mitchell didn't care
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Eh, the Daily Mail will run the more sensational stuff, but anecdotes aren't data.

No, what I've read are news articles. I love the Daily Mail--such a bizarre combinations of stories, from terrific historical pieces to the lurid, all with terrible typos that they're just shameless about. And great photographs. These alone are worth checking for.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

If the Daily Mail is to be believed, Brits are extremely creative in the ways they commit suicide. In the absence of guns, those intent on killing themselves do seem to find a way--throwing themselves off roofs and etc.

The Daily Mail isn't to be believed by thinking people.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

why are you derailing this point with your Reagan comment.

the purpose of the Hughes amendment was to derail a pro gun bill

there was no evidence of it being needed to prevent crimes that weren't happening

Oh. I thought you knew Reagan signed it.

My mistake.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

there was no criminal misuse of machine guns legally owned (2 cases out of several hundred thousand owned in 50 years and both involving cops who could get the guns even in states that ban them)

the entire purpose of the Hughes amendment was that Hughes was pissed that the overall bill was going to pass and it was pro gun owner

BTW it was not even properly passed but scum bags Rangel and mitchell didn't care

Once again, demonstrating the incredible effectiveness of the machine gun ban passed in the 30s.

The reason you hate the Hughes amendment so much is that it limits your toy collection. I'll trade lives for that.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Oh. I thought you knew Reagan signed it.

My mistake.

I guess you missed the 240 posts or so in which I explained why he did' 'Having a former college roommate who was white house counsel then is a useful source of information. So again you either are not telling the truth or you just ignored it

and again you are not addressing the points honestly but trying to derail a point you cannot refute
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Once again, demonstrating the incredible effectiveness of the machine gun ban passed in the 30s.

The reason you hate the Hughes amendment so much is that it limits your toy collection. I'll trade lives for that.

you are again dishonestly confusing the Hughes amendment with the 1934 NFA and since you don't understand it but support it because gun owners don't like it-it proves my point that your support for gun restrictions is based on your dislike of people who don't buy into your leftwing agenda
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I guess you missed the 240 posts or so in which I explained why he did' 'Having a former college roommate who was white house counsel then is a useful source of information. So again you either are not telling the truth or you just ignored it

and again you are not addressing the points honestly but trying to derail a point you cannot refute

I really don't care about your mythical college roommate/Reagan boy toy.

He signed it. I'm pretty sure it wasn't as gunpoint.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

you are again dishonestly confusing the Hughes amendment with the 1934 NFA and since you don't understand it but support it because gun owners don't like it-it proves my point that your support for gun restrictions is based on your dislike of people who don't buy into your leftwing agenda

Nope. They are different. And both work.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Boy, it is clear that the last thing you want to do is directly take me on. You steer clear of the subject, and comment on the fringe stuff that has absolutely nothing to do with what is being debated. I quoted someone, and instead of taking on the quote, you focus on the fact that I used a quote! LOL! You can't make this stuff up!

I've been saying for years that the left must use tactics like misleading and staying away from the point to be involved in debates. You've proved that out, once again.

Get back to me when you put together a few thoughts.

I apologize for having hurt your feelings.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

In cases this extreme there may be little practical difference. But not all cases are this extreme.

As a culture we have prided ourselves on protecting the freedom of people to be who they are, worship whom they will, speak with freedom and live with dignity. Murder based on race, creed, etc is even more disruptive to our social structure than murder alone.

I read the double standard bugs you.. I get it. I just think it's so far from the POINT of today it doesn't really matter.

Murder will always be murder no matter how you color it.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Reading this and similar threads makes it hard to disagree with this assessment:

" The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance. ... "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...01506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Nope. They are different. And both work.

yep, both work to harass people you despise because of their politics

stopping crimes-not at all
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Reading this and similar threads makes it hard to disagree with this assessment:

" The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance. ... "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...01506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

yeah the author of that is a real winner

Having served as president of two Washington-based national advocacy organizations, David Niose has been immersed in secular-progressive politics and the culture wars for over a decade. Niose joined the board of the American Humanist Association (AHA) in 2005, seeing secular-progressive activism as a means of combating the disastrous policies of the Bush-Cheney administration and its conservative allies.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Reading this and similar threads makes it hard to disagree with this assessment:

" The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance. ... "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...01506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

Anti intellectualism is right. Why? Because only someone who has no intellect would look at this situation and blame guns and racism. Let me ask you a serious question: how many racists are there in this country?

The answer is plenty. If racism CAUSED this incident...then why don't we see more race related mass murders? Now do you think this kids racism was the biggest factor in what caused the shooting? Because that ignores that there are racists all over the place, and few engage in mass shootings.

Any guns? Guns being part of the problem? 3 things:

1) 0.02% of firearms owners commit murder.
2) Mass murder is even LESS common.
3) There are many racist people who own guns. They STILL don't commit mass murder.

So it isn't access to guns, it isn't gun ownership, and it isn't racism that caused this issue. So as far as "anti intellectualism goes" I agree...it is the people who are constantly focusing on the non issue. The issues that are politically expedient and great to talk about because they hurt your rival politicians and their lobby group. ESPECIALLY with an upcoming election cycle.

Why aren't we talking about the fact that relatively few people commit this kind of act? Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable? How many times do people have to go on murdering with knives and guns and all this, until some scumbag politician finally decides that the interests of America might be better served in looking at the root cause of violence.

You want more gun control? That means more cops to enforce it? Last I checked the democrats were up in arms over police brutality? Who the hell is going to deal with more gun control? The incompetent ATF? Seriously. All of the stuff piling up and we STILL are not hearing calls for improved mental health care.

No. Let's continue on our self involved Facebook world and ignore the consequences of our increasingly cut off culture that isolates these lunatics even further from help.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The question: "Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable?" is at first glance a reasonable question but then one must ask how do we determine who is "mentally violent and unstable" before they commit an act of violence? Is every American to be subjected to a psychological evaluation?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The question: "Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable?" is at first glance a reasonable question but then one must ask how do we determine who is "mentally violent and unstable" before they commit an act of violence? Is every American to be subjected to a psychological evaluation?

No. That would be wrong. But how many warning signs do we know of for serial killers? Or arsonists? Now mass murderers? How can we even begin to deal with this if we don't look at it?

For one...this asshole in SC can be evaluated. Any of them caught alive can. It can be court ordered. Additionally, any person who makes threats and is caught? Any computer records or diaries of the dead criminals as well. Not every American must Be studied. There are groups that can be isolated. We have already done this for some of the characteristics. Law enforcement profiled them a little. And most say the will commit the act, and most have a history of violence.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Reading this and similar threads makes it hard to disagree with this assessment:

" The tragedy in Charleston last week will no doubt lead to more discussion of several important and recurring issues in American culture—particularly racism and gun violence—but these dialogues are unlikely to bear much fruit until the nation undertakes a serious self-examination. Decrying racism and gun violence is fine, but for too long America’s social dysfunction has continued to intensify as the nation has ignored a key underlying pathology: anti-intellectualism.

America is killing itself through its embrace and exaltation of ignorance, and the evidence is all around us. Dylann Roof, the Charleston shooter who used race as a basis for hate and mass murder, is just the latest horrific example. Many will correctly blame Roof's actions on America's culture of racism and gun violence, but it's time to realize that such phenomena are directly tied to the nation's culture of ignorance. ... "

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...01506/anti-intellectualism-is-killing-america

Anti-intellectualism has been a thread in the American fabric since our country’s beginnings. So argued Richard Hofstadter over 50 years ago in his Pulitzer prize-winning book Anti-Intellectualism in American Life. In a democracy the inclination is, to borrow from C.S. Lewis, not to “overtop one’s fellows” or be seen as doing so. I don’t think that secular humanist and attorney David Niose is even familiar with Hofstadter’s seminal argument or that he even understands what “intellectualism” means. This piece is shamelessly agenda-driven and partisan.

Niose doesn’t even address education, only sex ed. because this gives him the opportunity to bash the Bible Belt and “traditional values.” What he is doing here is exploiting the tragedy in Charleston to flog his viewpoints on “hyper-patriotism,” a “blood-thirsty” gun culture, sex education, fundamentalist religion and its climate change denial (which “everybody” in the scientific community accepted for years), and evil corporate interests. Niose even refers to fundamentalists and corporate interests as “bedfellows.”

Niose would have you believe that if you disagree with him, you just aren’t thinking critically and are instead a slave to your emotions. This is “intellectualism” and critical thinking at work? Poppycock.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Anti intellectualism is right. Why? Because only someone who has no intellect would look at this situation and blame guns and racism. Let me ask you a serious question: how many racists are there in this country?

The answer is plenty. If racism CAUSED this incident...then why don't we see more race related mass murders? Now do you think this kids racism was the biggest factor in what caused the shooting? Because that ignores that there are racists all over the place, and few engage in mass shootings.

Any guns? Guns being part of the problem? 3 things:

1) 0.02% of firearms owners commit murder.
2) Mass murder is even LESS common.
3) There are many racist people who own guns. They STILL don't commit mass murder.

So it isn't access to guns, it isn't gun ownership, and it isn't racism that caused this issue. So as far as "anti intellectualism goes" I agree...it is the people who are constantly focusing on the non issue. The issues that are politically expedient and great to talk about because they hurt your rival politicians and their lobby group. ESPECIALLY with an upcoming election cycle.

Why aren't we talking about the fact that relatively few people commit this kind of act? Why aren't we asking for a special behavioral analysis group to begin testing and evaluation of the mentally violent and unstable? How many times do people have to go on murdering with knives and guns and all this, until some scumbag politician finally decides that the interests of America might be better served in looking at the root cause of violence.

You want more gun control? That means more cops to enforce it? Last I checked the democrats were up in arms over police brutality? Who the hell is going to deal with more gun control? The incompetent ATF? Seriously. All of the stuff piling up and we STILL are not hearing calls for improved mental health care.

No. Let's continue on our self involved Facebook world and ignore the consequences of our increasingly cut off culture that isolates these lunatics even further from help.

It's pretty friggin' clear that racism at least helped cause this.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

That might have been a spur, but in the mind of a madman, any excuse will serve--being picked on by the popular kids (Klebold and Harris), rejection by women (Elliott Rogers), the need to show the world...whatever. Who knows what's really inside the mind of an Adam Lanza or Dylann Roof?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It's pretty friggin' clear that racism at least helped cause this.

I'm not denying that this kid wasn't racist and his racism chose his target. But be honest here...if he hadn't done it here...do you REALLY think he wouldn't he eventually committed, or attempted, a mass homicidal act. From what he said, he seems to think he is a victim. And we know he was on drugs.

I have to ask you: how many racist actually breach the murder line? Not many. So what the hell caused this nut bag to do it? We can decry racism and all that other garbage, but you should be smart enough to know that that will all be political outcry. It won't be a solution. And it will do nothing helpful in the end:

Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it everywhere, diagnosing it incorrectly and applying the wrong remedies.

Groucho Marx

Now can you actually say that the diagnosis here is that it was guns and racism that pushed him over the brink? Or was it something else? Why are do people want to NOT focus on the fact that our understanding of mental health in this nation, and how we should go about it is basically non existent.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

That might have been a spur, but in the mind of a madman, any excuse will serve--being picked on by the popular kids (Klebold and Harris), rejection by women (Elliott Rogers), the need to show the world...whatever. Who knows what's really inside the mind of an Adam Lanza or Dylann Roof?

But no!!! Guns! Racism!!!

Seriously. This is exactly the problem. What is the loose wire here?
 
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