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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

CanadaJohn said:
So, your bigoted interpretations and slantings are proof of Republican policies. Since the vast majority of poor people in America are white and since the left seems to think this is an attack on poor people, and since the vast majority of poor white people in America appear to vote Republican, wouldn't this be the opposite of what you're suggesting?
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The voting rules aren't an attack on poor people, but poor people who live in cities and don't drive. In my state, most poor whites are rural and drive, and so have the required ID and they DO mostly vote GOP. Most people who live in the cities and don't drive are black. I don't even think the election consultants care about race except that blacks vote mostly democratic and so any policies that drive down their voting numbers helps the GOP. It's just numbers.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

JasperL said:
That's not what he said at all. What is just true is it's different here than where you live, or in Canada, and it definitely relates to CENTURIES of institutionalized racism and state enforced white supremacy in this region that didn't officially end until the 1960s (my lifetime) and still exists because many people brought up in that culture are still alive and haven't changed all that much, and many of them handed down their own biases to their children born in the 1960s and 70s. But that attitude is slowly and literally dying out, which is a good thing (not that people are dying, but that the ingrained racism they learned as children is...).

A good example is that Baptist Church in Kentucky that voted to ban interracial marriage in their church and wouldn't allow the black boyfriend/fiance to sing with the choir. The vote was 9-6 for the ban, but 25 or more didn't vote and so were in Glen's formulation "tolerant" of the racists in their church. The vote is probably flipped in almost all churches now, but various polls have shown that in this decade (the 2010s), between 20-40% of conservative whites support racist interracial marriage bans, so the belief isn't rare at all.

The only surprising thing to me is that the church had a vote, and a majority was willing to put their racism on the record. But even with that the ringleader had to hilariously disavow racism as the motive (of course not....), so the culture is absolutely changing.
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Oh dear, it is heartening to learn that there has never been any racism in my country, nor, what was it, "state enforced white supremacy".

I guess the history of how her Majesty's Commonwealth government eradicated natives? Hmm? There was no suppression of the French in Quebec for 150 years? We have had no gun related multiple homicides? And it is really good to learn that Canada never sent it's natives to concentration camps, allowed the systemic rape and torture of native children for 100 years into the 1970's. Yes, indeed, we are so pure and clean.

Look, Americans know squat about Canada, they know more about Iraq than what happens next door, and every time a lefty winger weeds into the debate they comp;ete fools of themselves...

One - Canada's gun laws are far more lax than most US jurisdictions. We have a fraction of the over all crime rate. We are a nation that likes to obey laws, smoke pot and only beat the **** out of others in hockey games.

What is different about Canada is not laws, not how many guns, not how many shootings, but the social fabric, the people. Guns are irrelevant with you have created a violent society. And DO NOT try to shoulder that over to the gun toting right. We have seen in recent weeks, a fervent, rabid left makind death threats to pizza shop owners and calling for the murder of a shooting suspect.

The problem is not you laws, the problem is in the mirror
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

countryboy said:
And he is the official spokesperson for every one of these laws in every state where they have been adopted? Ummmm.....no.

Not to mention, Romney lost PA. Isn't that proof that these laws don't suppress voters? :roll:

BTW, we have voter a I.D. law here in Ohio. Guess who won here in 2012?
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Did I win?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Fearandloathing said:
Look, Americans know squat about Canada, they know more about Iraq than what happens next door, and every time a lefty winger weeds into the debate they comp;ete fools of themselves...
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Not entirely true. Some don't, some do. Same as Canadians knowing about America.

What is different about Canada is not laws, not how many guns, not how many shootings, but the social fabric, the people. Guns are irrelevant with you have created a violent society. And DO NOT try to shoulder that over to the gun toting right. We have seen in recent weeks, a fervent, rabid left makind death threats to pizza shop owners and calling for the murder of a shooting suspect.

The problem is not you laws, the problem is in the mirror
Click to expand...

I absolutely agree with this 100% with all of this.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

countryboy said:
And he is the official spokesperson for every one of these laws in every state where they have been adopted? Ummmm.....no.

Not to mention, Romney lost PA. Isn't that proof that these laws don't suppress voters? :roll:

BTW, we have voter a I.D. law here in Ohio. Guess who won here in 2012?
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WOW!!!!! One of the key and more important Pennsylvania state officials responsible for the passage of new laws in that states legislature comes right out and tells the world what the new voter ID law is going to do politically in that election and somehow that is not proof of his intent????!!!!!!!! :doh

WOW!!!!! But I really know what they mean when they say that DENIAL is not a river in Egypt. :roll:

And it does not matter that Romney lost the state despite the efforts of GOP party leaders to use voter ID to deliver it for him. That was their intent and it was clear and unmistakable as their own words admit to. Their inability to deliver the state speaks to greater problems the GOP has in that state. And the same for other states the GOP may have lost as well.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

countryboy said:
If anything, it could be said that the left's mischaracterization of voter I.D. laws are to blame. You are the only ones erroneously claiming they are racially motivated. Leftys lie, people die.
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What we should know is the rules help the GOP - that's why red states adopted them at far higher rates than blue states. They're not stupid, so they clearly think the rules changes benefit their candidates or they wouldn't do them. And Democrats wouldn't oppose them if they thought the rules were neutral or helped democrats win.

I don't think they are "racially" motivated except that they target democratic voters, and the most reliable block of democratic voters are black. If it was poor whites living in the inner cities, and they voted 90%+ for democrats, the same rules accomplish the same thing - drive down democratic voters.

And vote ID laws were often or usually paired with other changes that simply made it more difficult to register, shortened the registration period, made registration drives all but illegal, shortened early voting, made it more inconvenient for the poor (e.g. all the weekday hours between 9-5, fewer weekend early voting days), but for the most part didn't touch absentee voting, where almost all the actual "voter fraud" happens but which is done mostly by GOP voters.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

haymarket said:
NO. The quoted words and intentions of Republican and Pennsylvania power broker Mike Turzai are proof of Republican policies



Your claim that "the vast majority of poor white people in America" are Republican voters needs some serious proof before I would even consider giving your question any serious consideration of an answer. Do you have it?

I will even help you get started. Here are the official poverty level figures for the USA

2015 Poverty Guidelines

Now take those and show me how the "vast majority" of white folks living in poverty are voting Republican. And this time I will be the one waiting for the evidence.
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Which part do you dispute? That the majority of the poor in America are white or that the majority of the white poor vote Republican?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

CanadaJohn said:
Which part do you dispute? That the majority of the poor in America are white or that the majority of the white poor vote Republican?
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Your statement was that the majority of poor whites in America vote Republican - you even used the word "VAST MAJORITY" which clearly implies big numbers even far more than just a simple 50% plus one majority. So lets see it. I provided you with the poverty income levels to help you.

here again is your statement with the key part bolded so you can spot it rather easily

Since the vast majority of poor people in America are white and since the left seems to think this is an attack on poor people, and since the vast majority of poor white people in America appear to vote Republican, wouldn't this be the opposite of what you're suggesting?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Fearandloathing said:
Oh dear, it is heartening to learn that there has never been any racism in my country, nor, what was it, "state enforced white supremacy".

I guess the history of how her Majesty's Commonwealth government eradicated natives? Hmm? There was no suppression of the French in Quebec for 150 years? We have had no gun related multiple homicides? And it is really good to learn that Canada never sent it's natives to concentration camps, allowed the systemic rape and torture of native children for 100 years into the 1970's. Yes, indeed, we are so pure and clean.
Click to expand...

Sorry that I misstated the point. I don't go into threads and tell Canadians what the racial climate is in CANADA because I don't live there and am totally ignorant about it. But a person living in the NE and a Canadian are posting on this thread that those of us who live in the South, where they've never spent more than a few vacation days if that, are mischaracterizing the environment here.

Look, Americans know squat about Canada, they know more about Iraq than what happens next door, and every time a lefty winger weeds into the debate they comp;ete fools of themselves...
Click to expand...

You're right, I don't, and all I was trying to demonstrate was if you want to make claims about the SOUTH, don't do it from 800 or 1,000 miles away and tell those of us who have lived here our entire lives what it is like here.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Redress said:
You know, while I probably agree more than disagree with the sentiment, can't you wait until the bodies are at least cold to start using it for your favorite political position?
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Yes, as though we see any such restraint by anybody else advancing their own memes around here!
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Fearandloathing said:
Or the Polytechnique shootings in Montreal, Quebec Canada, where a lone gunman stared killing women. Canada where people consider murder rude.

But, hey, a president known for fabrication and lying above all else says hate is only available in America, and he should know.

Yep that darn old constitution is causing all this chaos and death that never happens anywhere else. But then he gets his information from television.
Click to expand...

Oh! Did this happen this year?

Oh, no. It happened in.....1989.

Thanks for unwittingly emphasizing my point.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

haymarket said:
Your statement was that the majority of poor whites in America vote Republican - you even used the word "VAST MAJORITY" which clearly implies big numbers even far more than just a simple 50% plus one majority. So lets see it. I provided you with the poverty income levels to help you.

here again is your statement with the key part bolded so you can spot it rather easily
Click to expand...

Just check out the demographics of Obama's election victory in 2012 or go back to any Presidential election for the past thirty years or more. In 2012, Obama's coalition consisted of about 98% of the black vote, which was larger than the white vote, the non-black minority vote, and about 39% of the white vote, that white vote consisting of urban, college educated, middle to upper class whites.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2012/oct/29/working-class-voters-america-republican
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Fearandloathing said:
What is different about Canada is not laws, not how many guns, not how many shootings, but the social fabric, the people. Guns are irrelevant with you have created a violent society. And DO NOT try to shoulder that over to the gun toting right. We have seen in recent weeks, a fervent, rabid left makind death threats to pizza shop owners and calling for the murder of a shooting suspect.

The problem is not you laws, the problem is in the mirror
Click to expand...

Well, it is just demonstrably untrue that our gun laws are irrelevant. More guns ==> more gun deaths, by murder and suicide and accidents. Comparing us to Canada doesn't help much - I'm guessing the rural areas of the U.S. are a lot like the vast rural areas in Canada with regard to crime.

My own view is the "guns" horse left the barn decades ago at least and so I don't spend a lot of time debating gun control. Bottom line is if you want a gun in the U.S. you can get one, and no amount of laws can really do more than make a small dent on the margins on the rate of gun deaths. We've got the 2A, like it or not, and 100s of millions of firearms in circulation, like it or not, and we'll always be different in that regard than most of Europe who are our economic peers.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

bicycleman said:
But it should be a slam dunk in SC since the police already labeled it a hate crime.

Hate crimes against white police officers in Ferguson, Mo and other cities are occurring all the time, with those perpetrators seeming swept under the rug, yet there will be a rush to convict this white kid for hate.
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First of all, I see nothing wrong with "there will be a rush to convict this white kid for hate". If that helps get him &#^!canned I think it's fine.

Secondly to your mention of a double standard... yes there are double standards. And again if this goes harder for this murderer that will be fine in my opinion. For every double standard that is unfair to white middle aged men (like me, for example) there are 10 double standards which are unfair to black people. It is an interesting thing to argue about, but it just doesn't apply to this situation.

Why would we complain that this murderer gets treated worse than some black counterpart might? It is the RIGHT thing for the book to come down hard in either case right? So justice will be served well here if your theory is right.

It makes exactly ZERO difference to this case... which is about what happens to HIM not to theoretical black perps.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

CanadaJohn said:
Just check out the demographics of Obama's election victory in 2012 or go back to any Presidential election for the past thirty years or more. In 2012, Obama's coalition consisted of about 98% of the black vote, which was larger than the white vote, the non-black minority vote, and about 39% of the white vote, that white vote consisting of urban, college educated, middle to upper class whites.

Working class voters: why America's poor are willing to vote Republican | US news | The Guardian
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BBBBZZZZTTTT!!!!! That loud and rather annoying noise is a buzzer telling you that you DID NOT provide the data requested. You stated quite clearly that

Since the vast majority of poor people in America are white and since the left seems to think this is an attack on poor people, and since the vast majority of poor white people in America appear to vote Republican, wouldn't this be the opposite of what you're suggesting?
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Right now it is immaterial who Blacks voted for or who college educated folks voted for or upperclass whites voted for or three legged green albino's voted for with incomes of more than $85,000 a year. Your statement was not about them. Your claim was about THE VAST MAJORITY OF POOR WHITE PEOPLE IN AMERICA and you claimed the voted REPUBLICAN.

So lets see the hard evidence on that. I even tried to get you started by providing you with the poverty statistics.

So lets see it and forget about all the other smoke and mirrors. I have no interest in watching your lovely assistant bend over in the low cut dress while you are switching the other one in the box before you saw it in half. Lets just see what you claimed and the hard evidence for it.

Or you could admit you simply said something wrong and we can leave it at that.

And I read your linked story. Not one line in it - not one statistic in it - stated that a majority of poor whites vote Republican. You presented an attempt at evidence which does not even provide one iota of proof for your claim.

If I am wrong about the content of your linked article - do more than just link to it - quote the relevant part which states that a majority of poor white voters in the USA voted Republican. You cannot because it does not.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

solletica said:
I myself am not White, so I wouldn't dare set foot in a place like that. I'd likely be arrested for walking on the sidewalk the first day.
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Hogwash. You post that there are 16 hate groups operating in SC.

That might be true, but take a look at the Hate Map.

Deep blue NY has WAY more. So does PA and NJ.

Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

solletica said:
You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.
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I didn't notice a war. Maybe you're involved in one. If so, I wish you luck. Be sure to take along your meds.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

solletica said:
You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.
Click to expand...

Riiiigggghhhtt...

:screwy:
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

HowardBThiname said:
Hogwash. You post that there are 16 hate groups operating in SC.

That might be true, but take a look at the Hate Map.

Deep blue NY has WAY more. So does PA and NJ.

Hate Map | Southern Poverty Law Center
Click to expand...

The relevant statistic here is the no. of anti-Black hate groups per capita in SC vs. NY.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

solletica said:
You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.
Click to expand...

Congrats. You wrote the most disgusting post I've read in a very long time.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

JasperL said:
That's not what he said at all. What is just true is it's different here than where you live, or in Canada, and it definitely relates to CENTURIES of institutionalized racism and state enforced white supremacy in this region that didn't officially end until the 1960s (my lifetime) and still exists because many people brought up in that culture are still alive and haven't changed all that much, and many of them handed down their own biases to their children born in the 1960s and 70s. But that attitude is slowly and literally dying out, which is a good thing (not that people are dying, but that the ingrained racism they learned as children is...).

A good example is that Baptist Church in Kentucky that voted to ban interracial marriage in their church and wouldn't allow the black boyfriend/fiance to sing with the choir. The vote was 9-6 for the ban, but 25 or more didn't vote and so were in Glen's formulation "tolerant" of the racists in their church. The vote is probably flipped in almost all churches now, but various polls have shown that in this decade (the 2010s), between 20-40% of conservative whites support racist interracial marriage bans, so the belief isn't rare at all.

The only surprising thing to me is that the church had a vote, and a majority was willing to put their racism on the record. But even with that the ringleader had to hilariously disavow racism as the motive (of course not....), so the culture is absolutely changing.
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It's exactly what he said. It was as stupid a presumption as solletica saying that this murderer is going to be hailed as a hero in the south.

We can all come up with "good examples" of everything. The Westboro Baptists aren't representative of Baptists. Susan Smith isn't representative of mothers. Ted Bundy wasn't representative of northwest law students. Charles Manson wasn't representative of song writing hippies.

There are racists in this country. There are also sexists, ageists, and on and on and on. No ****. You think anyone thinks otherwise?

Glen habitually and repeatedly says the south is racist. There are racists in the south. To anyone with half of a functioning brain that does not mean the south is racist.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

solletica said:
You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.
Click to expand...

What? That's insane, have you ever been to the south?
 
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