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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tres borrachos said:
Didn't he manage to drive something like 200 miles before he was caught?
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The way I see it, cars are borderline essential to some of these shootings. I've noticed that a lot these guys show up with like 4-5 guns. Most of them are scrawny little ****ers who have never put in a day's work. How do they move 4-5 guns around? Well, they put them in one of those gym bags, but you can only carry them so far before you tired out.

Many of these shootings also happen in places that could be considered 'car-towns'. That's what I call places where there is a sizable percentage of the population that lives out in the country. Vermont has tons of them. They're anywhere between 20K and 200K people. So with that said, I definitely see a correlation between cars and these shootings. Inner cities have drive-bys and gang violence, smaller cities have shootings. Just look at the list of school shootings and such:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

Most of them happen in places that don't even reach the 200K mark. Sure, you get the occasional shooting in places like Detroit, and NYC but they're vastly outnumbered by the places that one could call 'car towns'. It might just be that cities under 500K are everywhere, it may just be pure coinkidink, but I think that probably plays a far bigger role than mental illness or even drugs.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Hatuey said:
He also drove... He drove his mom's car to the school... I'm not trying to be a dick... I swear, a lot of these guys had their own vehicles.
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That's fine, but his uncle said that when he was 19 he didn't have a job or a drivers license. He also said he was introverted, quiet and stayed alone in his room a lot. That almost describes Adam Lanza to a tee. Like Nursemate said, "a long history of mental illness since grade school and off his meds as an adult" wouldn't be too surprising.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tres borrachos said:
No idea what this means.
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It probably means more to the poster you were responding to. Sorry about that.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Hatuey said:
The way I see it, cars are borderline essential to some of these shootings. I've noticed that a lot these guys show up with like 4-5 guns. Most of them are scrawny little ****ers who have never put in a day's work. How do they move 4-5 guns around? Well, they put them in one of those gym bags, but you can only carry them so far before you tired out.

Many of these shootings also happen in places that could be considered 'car-towns'. That's what I call places where there is a sizable percentage of the population that lives out in the country. Vermont has tons of them. They're anywhere between 20K and 200K people. So with that said, I definitely see a correlation between cars and these shootings. Inner cities have drive-bys and gang violence, smaller cities have shootings. Just look at the list of school shootings and such:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_school_shootings_in_the_United_States#2010s

Most of them happen in places that don't even reach the 200K mark. Sure, you get the occasional shooting in places like Detroit, and NYC but they're vastly outnumbered by the places that one could call 'car towns'. It might just be that cities under 500K are everywhere, it may just be pure coinkidink, but I think that probably plays a far bigger role than mental illness or even drugs.
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I agree, and that's an interesting question. This little **** is 5'9" and 120 pounds. I'm 5'8" and 125, and I couldn't move 2 guns, forget 5. They always seem to be undersized little bastards.

To your point about the car towns, I never thought about it, but you are correct there as well.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

ObamacareFail said:
Actually with rare exception the mass shooters have turned out to be leftwingers.
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No, not really. There is sort of a cottage industry among right wing blogs where they immediately blurt out that any shooter is "a registered Democrat". They did that this time too. But, of course, it isn't true, it is just stuff bloggers (and sometimes shady right wing news outlets) say.

Of the mass shooters and bombers who have been motivated by a political cause, the vast majority have come from the right. White supremacists, anti-abortion terrorists, anti-government nuts and Islamic terrorism are all right wing. There are many right wing organizations in the US from each of those categories and many of them have at least some direct involvement in violence. What equivalent political motivation for mass murder or terrorism is there on the left? The only ones I can think of are anti-war terrorism (which you need to go back to the Vietnam era to find an instance of) and ecoterrorism (which focuses exclusively on property, not people).

Now, of the ones who have been motivated by something non-political, their politics are more mixed. I'm not really sure why their politics matter in a case where that isn't related to their killing. Really, most of them have not had strong, clear, political leans. The ones in this category tend to be more crazy than either liberal or conservative. Sometimes that manifests as being kind of an extremist in both directions, like Loughner, for example, who had both Nazi and Communist books. He appears to have been drawn by extremism and didn't really care whether it was liberal or conservative extremes. Some of them probably really should be described as libertarian socialists- they passionately hate government, the rich and corporations. Or, a lot of them just haven't really talked or apparently thought much about politics, or else they just didn't have very clearly thought out positions on political issues. The DC sniper, for example, had some journal where he periodically said kind of random political things, some of which sounded more liberal and others which sounded more conservative, but most of it just didn't really make sense. Apparently, he went the entire last year of his life eating only vitamins... Like hundreds of multivitamins a day... Whatever random scribbling he jotted down in whatever kind of bizarre mental state that kind of a diet induces don't really seem like they'd give any useful insight into what went wrong with him, do they?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tres borrachos said:
I agree, and that's an interesting question. This little **** is 5'9" and 120 pounds. I'm 5'8" and 125, and I couldn't move 2 guns, forget 5. They always seem to be undersized little bastards.

To your point about the car towns, I never thought about it, but you are correct there as well.
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I'm sure you could if you had a back-pack on, since you've hiked and climbed Mount Washington .
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

SMTA said:
Of course you are.

Minimal details, and you desperately flail around looking for a political label to paint a particular party.

Never let a good tragedy go to waste to further your own political agenda.

At least let the victims be buried first.
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You and others are hiding your head in the sand as a knee jerk reflex protection action. every day we see statements from people on the far right who are obviously living in their own reality - some of which seem to believe it is still three centuries ago - and their own extremism has polarized them to the extent that they do not live in the reality that most other Americans do.

Start with this and learn

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...mind-new-book-about-humanitys-great-mistake-0

http://www.amazon.com/The-Polarized-Mind-Killing-about/dp/1939686008

One thing that I have never been able to wrap my mind around is the special fear right wingers have for other right wingers who are obviously pathological misfits because of their mental illnesses. It manifests itself in outright denial - as we have seen in this discussion over and over again.

Nobody is saying that being a conservative or even the more extreme right libertarian is the same as a mental illness. Nobody is saying that. The vast majority of such persons are nowhere near mentally disturbed.

But some are and in this case of nine murders for racist reason - we just saw one example.
 
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Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Kobie said:
I had to patch my storm roof just last week.
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are you suffering from a case of shingles?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

JasperL said:
I was wondering too. This article helps: Why would an American white supremacist be fond of Rhodesia? - CSMonitor.com

Seems to be a dog whistle for white supremacists. Was ruled at one time by a white racist.
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true and when the racist white regime was replaced, it was replaced by a communist black and now racist regime which was far far worse than Ian Smith's government. It is used by white racists to try to accentuate the incompetence of black rulers of formerly white run nations
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tuhaybey said:
No, not really. There is sort of a cottage industry among right wing blogs where they immediately blurt out that any shooter is "a registered Democrat". They did that this time too. But, of course, it isn't true, it is just stuff bloggers (and sometimes shady right wing news outlets) say.

Of the mass shooters and bombers who have been motivated by a political cause, the vast majority have come from the right. White supremacists, anti-abortion terrorists, anti-government nuts and Islamic terrorism are all right wing. There are many right wing organizations in the US from each of those categories and many of them have at least some direct involvement in violence. What equivalent political motivation for mass murder or terrorism is there on the left? The only ones I can think of are anti-war terrorism (which you need to go back to the Vietnam era to find an instance of) and ecoterrorism (which focuses exclusively on property, not people).

Now, of the ones who have been motivated by something non-political, their politics are more mixed. I'm not really sure why their politics matter in a case where that isn't related to their killing. Really, most of them have not had strong, clear, political leans. The ones in this category tend to be more crazy than either liberal or conservative. Sometimes that manifests as being kind of an extremist in both directions, like Loughner, for example, who had both Nazi and Communist books. He appears to have been drawn by extremism and didn't really care whether it was liberal or conservative extremes. Some of them probably really should be described as libertarian socialists- they passionately hate government, the rich and corporations. Or, a lot of them just haven't really talked or apparently thought much about politics, or else they just didn't have very clearly thought out positions on political issues. The DC sniper, for example, had some journal where he periodically said kind of random political things, some of which sounded more liberal and others which sounded more conservative, but most of it just didn't really make sense. Apparently, he went the entire last year of his life eating only vitamins... Like hundreds of multivitamins a day... Whatever random scribbling he jotted down in whatever kind of bizarre mental state that kind of a diet induces don't really seem like they'd give any useful insight into what went wrong with him, do they?
Click to expand...

Left wing terrorism-weather underground the SLA, the Earth First extremists, the unibomber, the ALF, have all been as violent as any right wing extremism. we have no idea what actually motivated this current rampage yet, though it appears to be the color of the victims
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Hatuey said:
I didn't accuse you of anything. I pointed out that you didn't bother to actually read your own source. Good grief, reading comprehension REALLY is hard for you.
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YOu said: "Oh god, did you read your own source? The one you copied verbatim from Wiki?"

I didn't.

You then went on to try and defend your argument... copying verbatim from Wiki. :roll:


Nope, I claimed there is no evidence to suggest he was mentally ill. There isn't. Reading comprehension. Use it.
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And you are wrong.


It's almost like you didn't read it: The source said MAY result from mental illness, not that it is specifically a symptom of it. Again, reading comprehension.
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Only 89% chance! Hey, and guess what, I was right! Neener.



Lol, again reading comprehension, what the source is stating is that psychosis includes substance induced psychosis. Seriously, if you can't even read the basics of the very sources you're reading, why go into the more complex stuff that has commas?
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Substance abuse psychosis is a mental illness.



Still trying this silly argument? I'd give it up after failing so horribly to comprehend your own source.
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Good grief, you do realize that the source states that 50 to 91% of the US population has had homicidal ideation? If your reading comprehension was anywhere near as good as you pretend it is, we'd then have to say that 45% to 81% of the US is mentally ill. However, the most liberal estimates put it somewhere at ~20% (or 1 in 5 Americans). Do you not see a contradiction within this? How only ~20% of the population can be mentally ill by the most liberal estimates but if your flawed attempt to play psychologist works, psychologists have been off by a a factor of 2 or 3 at best?
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You have conflated mental illness stats in a given year with mental illness stats over a lifetime. NAMI estimates that in any given year there are 61 million people who experience mentally illness (where you get your 20% from). Over a LIFETIME, however, your 45-81% number is not an astonishing number if you consider that it's not all the same 60 million people every year dealing with mental illness.

That should give you a damn clue as to how silly your entire statement is. Homicidal ideation is the thought of wanting to kill somebody. It's not a mental illness, it can be a symptom of it, but not necessarily. However, even with that said, there is no evidence to suggest that this person was mentally ill. That remains true. :shrug:
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You have lost the topic in a "square isn't a rectangle" fashion. Homicidal Idceation is a disorder, and is a very common cause of admission to psychiatric treatment. We are discussing a murder who no doubt experienced Homicidal Ideation before he murdered 10 people. And, as the story unfolds he indeed appears to have had delirium and a drug induced psychosis.

Sorry for the spoilers.



He blamed all blacks for perceived crimes.
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Precisely. He was mentally ill.

Your diagnosis is WebMD nonsense. :shrug:
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This is funny! Now that you have decided to use Wikipedia for your own argument you stopped accusing me of using Wikipedia! Such transparent hypocrisy from you is ... disappointing.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

TurtleDude said:
Left wing terrorism-weather underground the SLA, the Earth First extremists, the unibomber, the ALF, have all been as violent as any right wing extremism. we have no idea what actually motivated this current rampage yet, though it appears to be the color of the victims
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Read the post before you hit reply to it....
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Gathomas88 said:
I've been following this myself. It supposedly happened right downtown.

With any luck, he'll be caught quickly.
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Do you have an alibi?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tuhaybey said:
Read the post before you hit reply to it....
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I did, hence my response. Its silly to start trying to tag the left or the right with this murderer's motivations yet
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

mac said:
Answers

1. We need to stop giving a damn about the media's language.
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I could not possibly disagree with you more vehemently.



2. It wouldn't have been any different. Whether you call it terrorism, mass murder, shooting spree, etc....the victims are dead. We should be focusing on the crime, not the politics.
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Good. But realize that not all whites can say this with a straight face.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tres borrachos said:
I agree, and that's an interesting question. This little **** is 5'9" and 120 pounds. I'm 5'8" and 125, and I couldn't move 2 guns, forget 5. They always seem to be undersized little bastards.

To your point about the car towns, I never thought about it, but you are correct there as well.
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You are a chick though and that sounds like a perfect ratio... this little scrawny punk is a twit and uses guns to make up for his small stature.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

haymarket said:
You and others are hiding your head in the sand as a knee jerk reflex protection action. every day we see statements from people on the far right who are obviously living in their own reality - some of which seem to believe it is still three centuries ago - and their own extremism has polarized them to the extent that they do not live in the reality that most other Americans do.

Start with this and learn

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blo...mind-new-book-about-humanitys-great-mistake-0

http://www.amazon.com/The-Polarized-Mind-Killing-about/dp/1939686008

One thing that I have never been able to wrap my mind around is the special fear right wingers have for other right wingers who are obviously pathological misfits because of their mental illnesses. It manifests itself in outright denial - as we have seen in this discussion over and over again.

Nobody is saying that being a conservative or even the more extreme right libertarian is the same as a mental illness. Nobody is saying that. The vast majority of such persons are nowhere near mentally disturbed.

But some are and in this case of nine murders for racist reason - we just saw one example.
Click to expand...

Yet again your far right label for me is painfully inaccurate - I am quite moderate.

The problem with these damn shootings is that I have never seen an in-depth analysis delving into the actual causes.

In many cases, these morons aren't around to analyze, so the only evidence is based upon interviews with others and analysis of their computer files.

The Holmes trial looks to be a failure of his mental health providers, who seem to be covering their own assets to avoid culpability for their actions.

If there was truly insight into the cause of these clown's actions, then there would be some action items in place already - and that has not yet happened.

There will always be more than one cause.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Roadvirus said:
Murder is bad enough. Doing it in a church is downright evil.
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Murder isn't evil already?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

tuhaybey said:
No, I don't think you did lol.
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uh wrong. lets get back to the topic. blaming anyone for this killer at this point is stupid
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

WSUwarrior said:
Wanting to curb violence and actually curbing violence are not the same thing. Gun control has NEVER EVER EVER TIMES A BILLION curbed violence.

Perhaps I should call it an Insanity Agenda? Gun control certainly fits the dictionary definition.



Curbing violence isnt the agenda anyway.....curbing civilian firearm ownership is. Hence why Bozo made executive action to stop WWII M1 Garand rifles from being shipped back to the states. When is the last time you hear someone getting shot by one of those?
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I was just playing world at war?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Ahlevah said:
When black people kill white people the blacks are "thugs" or "terrorists." When white people kill blacks the whites are "mentally disturbed." ;)
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Well the shooter at the Navy Yard was black (the only blac spree killer I can think of) and I don't think anyone ever called him a thug, that was big mental illness conversation too
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

SMTA said:
Yet again your far right label for me is painfully inaccurate - I am quite moderate.

The problem with these damn shootings is that I have never seen an in-depth analysis delving into the actual causes..
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Then lets get serious and investigate.

There will always be more than one cause.
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Yes, I agree. But in the cases where extremist beliefs cause one to be detached from reality and acts like this result - it must be examined thoroughly.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Luftwaffe said:
Well in that case I hope they don't accidentally get the wrong guy...

I'm white and clean shaven and I'm sure many people are. That's hardly a start and with that being said there are quite a good amount of possible perpetrators.
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Now wait a second. Just because we know that the attacker is likely a white male of a certain age, doesn't mean we should be racist a start profiling.
 
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