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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

There are documented cases of anti-white hate crimes committed by black people so "never" is inaccurate. The better question is why are white people still committing hate crimes in 2015?

I think the better question would be "why as anyone committing hate crimes in 2015?"
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]


Your attempt at evidence only shows you don't read your own evidence. This article is meant to argue that the link between mental illness and gun crime is specious when trying to argue that "He is mentally ill, therefore he is violent". In their argument the author wants to redirect that discussion away from the crazy people who commit mass murders and focus on the not crazy people who commit gun crimes in general.

This is not helping your argument.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It is a mental illness that people are treated for.

Oh god, did you read your own source? The one you copied verbatim from Wiki? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Homicidal_ideation

Homicidal ideation is not a disease itself, but may result from other illnesses such as psychosis and delirium. Psychosis, which accounts for 89% of admissions with homicidal ideation in one US study,[3] includes substance induced psychosis (e.g. amphetamine psychosis) and the psychoses related to schizophreniform disorder and schizophrenia. Delirium is often drug induced or secondary to general medical illness(es) (see ICD-10 Chapter V: Mental and behavioural disorders F05)

It may arise in association with personality disorders or it may occur in people who do not have any detectable illness. In fact, surveys have shown that the majority of people have had homicidal fantasies at some stage in their life.[2] Many theories have been proposed to explain this.[2][4]

However, all you've done is simply attach this label. So I doubt you did more than look for something you thought helped you.

It is classified on the ICD-10, sorry that you have such a problem with that.

^Meaningless drivel that doesn't actually understand what it is discussing.

Oh, I am very serious that it is ironic that in the post where you accuse me of trying to "decide who is crazy or not" you have decided he's not crazy. :roll:

Who decided he was not crazy? I said there was no evidence to suggest he was. Pointing to him having killed in a church doesn't change that. Get serious.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

As a human being my heart goes out to the victims and their families. What a senseless tragedy. I have a difficult time figuring out why one human being would do this to another innocent human being. I hope the families find peace.

As a Conservative I can tell you that this act is not in my description of conservative ideals. I am no way a doctor but I can say in my opinion anyone who would treat another person in this manner has a serious mental issue. Whatever that issue is should NOT keep this person from facing the full hand of justice. Whether that be death or life in prison. Preferably death considering the wake of misery this guy has left behind. If not death then a long drawn out miserable life sentence where the inmates dole out the justice.

Whether the crime is white on black or black on white the senseless nature of these sort of crimes should infuriate us all equally.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Your attempt at evidence only shows you don't read your own evidence. This article is meant to argue that the link between mental illness and gun crime is specious when trying to argue that "He is mentally ill, therefore he is violent". In their argument the author wants to redirect that discussion away from the crazy people who commit mass murders and focus on the not crazy people who commit gun crimes in general.

This is not helping your argument.

This is why you should read more than one link, the article actually shows that the mentally ill are less likely to commit such crimes and that's why the conversation should be redirected. It directly addresses Goshin's statements about people having a knee-jerk reaction and go for the easy response of 'the person must be mentally ill'. The second source (you know, the study) actually stated that the violent madman was nothing more than a stereotype. Reading comprehension is good.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Oh god, did you read your own source? The one you copied verbatim from Wiki? Here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Homicidal_ideation

However, all you've done is simply attach this label. So I doubt you did more than look for something you thought helped you.

^Meaningless drivel that doesn't actually understand what it is discussing.

Who decided he was not crazy? I said there was no evidence to suggest he was. Pointing to him having killed in a church doesn't change that. Get serious.

So most people go through depression at some point in their life, does that make it not a mental illness?

Seriously, step away from the keyboard, you are getting carelessly stupid in your attempts at defending your careless ignorance.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

As a human being my heart goes out to the victims and their families. What a senseless tragedy. I have a difficult time figuring out why one human being would do this to another innocent human being. I hope the families find peace.

As a Conservative I can tell you that this act is not in my description of conservative ideals. I am no way a doctor but I can say in my opinion anyone who would treat another person in this manner has a serious mental issue. Whatever that issue is should NOT keep this person from facing the full hand of justice. Whether that be death or life in prison. Preferably death considering the wake of misery this guy has left behind. If not death then a long drawn out miserable life sentence where the inmates dole out the justice.

Whether the crime is white on black or black on white the senseless nature of these sort of crimes should infuriate us all equally.



Thank you, well said.


It is unfortunate that some folks lost no time making political hay out of this tragedy...


“It is in our power to do something about it. I say that recognizing the politics in this town foreclose a lot of those avenues right now,” the president said. “But it’d be wrong for us not to acknowledge it, and at some point, it’s going to be important for the American people to come to grips with it and for us to be able to shift how we think about the issue of gun violence collectively.”


https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-on-charleston-its-too-easy-to-get-guns-in-121848101296.html
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

So most people go through depression at some point in their life, does that make it not a mental illness?

Are you ready to accept that HOMICIDAL IDEATION is not a mental illness/decease? Or are we only going with the part of the wiki link that you copied and ignoring that which directly contradicts your WebMD assessment?

Seriously, step away from the keyboard, you are getting carelessly stupid in your attempts at defending your careless ignorance.

Here it is again:

Homicidal ideation is not a disease itself, but may result from other illnesses such as psychosis and delirium. Psychosis, which accounts for 89% of admissions with homicidal ideation in one US study,[3] includes substance induced psychosis (e.g. amphetamine psychosis) and the psychoses related to schizophreniform disorder and schizophrenia. Delirium is often drug induced or secondary to general medical illness(es) (see ICD-10 Chapter V: Mental and behavioural disorders F05).

Wait, where did I say he was or he wasn't mentally ill? I've said there is no evidence to prove one way or another as of yet. That remains true, don't be stubborn. Admit you made a silly claim and back away. :shrug:
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Thank you, well said.


It is unfortunate that some folks lost no time making political hay out of this tragedy...





https://www.yahoo.com/politics/obama-on-charleston-its-too-easy-to-get-guns-in-121848101296.html

How is he wrong? Gun violence, for whatever reason, is a serious problem in the U.S. I don't know what the solution to it is, but you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that you have one.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Murder is bad enough. Doing it in a church is downright evil.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

How is he wrong? Gun violence, for whatever reason, is a serious problem in the U.S. I don't know what the solution to it is, but you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that you have one.

I would say this whole world has a violence problem, pick whichever tool you wish. Like you, I don't know the answer to fixing it.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Murder is bad enough. Doing it in a church is downright evil.

Pretty low for sure. On top of it all, sitting in the church for an hour before the act.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

How is he wrong? Gun violence, for whatever reason, is a serious problem in the U.S. I don't know what the solution to it is, but you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that you have one.

It is a serious problem. But both sides of the political spectrum like to exploit various tragedies for political gain. Both sides tend to single out various groups as the problem. Truth is it is across the board in this country which makes it easy as hell to find examples whether it be white crime, black, Muslim, Christian, immigrants, citizens, tall people short people, ect. America is becoming more and more violent. From what I see on various sites, people, news agencies, politicians, most people only want to address part of the problem.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Murder is bad enough. Doing it in a church is downright evil.
How is it different than shooting up an elementary school, killing two dozen 5-10 year-olds?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

How is he wrong? Gun violence, for whatever reason, is a serious problem in the U.S. I don't know what the solution to it is, but you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that you have one.

We do have a problem, it's not guns, it's our privatized healthcare system and anti tax ideology. There's almost no resources for mental health issues, and it's not profitable to provide effective mental health care.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Cant believe all those racist cops arrested a white guy.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I think the better question would be "why as anyone committing hate crimes in 2015?"

As we struggle to answer this question and to make sense of this latest mass killing, I am going to ask some difficult but necessary questions to everyone:

1. Had all of the events prior to and during this mass killing been exactly the same, with the sole difference that Roof had been a nonwhite Muslim, then how would the language of and the coverage by major US media outlets have been different?
2. Had all of the events prior to and during this mass killing been exactly the same, including the media coverage, with the sole difference that Roof had been a nonwhite Muslim, then how, if at all, would your personal response to this tragedy have been any different?

You don't have to reply to this post. You don't have to answer these questions right now. But I do want y'all to think them over.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

It is a serious problem. But both sides of the political spectrum like to exploit various tragedies for political gain. Both sides tend to single out various groups as the problem. Truth is it is across the board in this country which makes it easy as hell to find examples whether it be white crime, black, Muslim, Christian, immigrants, citizens, tall people short people, ect. America is becoming more and more violent. From what I see on various sites, people, news agencies, politicians, most people only want to address part of the problem.



Actually violent crime has been trending downward overall for over 40 years. It's just the media hype that makes it seem worse than it is.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I understand that - but there's a clear cut defense to be made when someone commits a crime accidentally. Or, when he's not in control of his mental state. We use those situations as defenses to judicial punishment.

It's not only a defense but shows that the laws take into account what people are thinking or what motivates their actions.

The difference with labeling something as a "hate crime" is that we're trying to pile more punishment on because of intent. It's not being used as a defense. What we need to do - in my opinion - is drop hate crime tagging and charge all crimes the same. If there are aggravating circumstances, they can be presented in the courtroom.
So you feel that way about terrorism laws? We should wipe them off of the books as well?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Actually violent crime has been trending downward overall for over 40 years. It's just the media hype that makes it seem worse than it is.

Which is not to say it isn't still a problem, a big problem.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

How is he wrong? Gun violence, for whatever reason, is a serious problem in the U.S. I don't know what the solution to it is, but you can't fix a problem until you acknowledge that you have one.

He is wrong because hes using tragedy to further a radical agenda. No one is arguing that people getting shot isnt a problem (although gun crime is plummeting except in areas where they accuse cops of being racist), but using still-warm dead bodies for political reasons is very, very wrong...and disrespectful to the families and victims quite frankly.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The Justice Dept. does not need to get involved just so this person can be prosecuted under a hate crime statute, which South Carolina evidently does not have. Let it just be a straight murder prosecution, so there is no doubt that the death penalty is available. Justice demands it for heinous murders like these.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

We are discussing a unique individual here, and who knows what's in the twisted mind of a mass murderer?

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/shadow-boxing/201207/mass-murder-motives

Bingo! And that is why I'd like to know if he was or has been in counseling, and the types of drugs he has taken, legally and otherwise. Most modern day young mass murderers have been connected to SSRIs or SNRIs. Those drugs can alter personalities, especially young people. The point being so many factors can be involved that we have no earthly idea what caused Roof to act as he did. It is important, however, that we find out.

I know a bazillion Christians and conservatives and I have yet to know one personally who has mass murdered people.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Out of curiosity, if every single injustice, actual or imagined, against a black person is considered to be a sign of racial antipathy then how are we ever going to overcome this perceived disparity? People no longer seek solutions to racial issues. They only seek to use every incident to press their sociopolitical agenda.

I do not claim that every single injustice, actual or imagined, against a black person (or any other group) is considered to be a sign of racial antipathy. I don't know of anyone who does. The circumstances need to be evaluated, especially when the act is done by someone with authority such as a cop. Killing a group of black people in a church appears to be a hate crime in this case, but that is not proven yet.
 
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