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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

  1. #901
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    YES, there were many in the North who didn't care about slavery one way or another...but most did, which is why most of those who they elected opposed slavery.
    This is false. Lincoln was a well known moderate on the issue of slavery.

    THAT is why he was elected. He actually beat out a blatant anti-slavery firebrand for the Republican nomination, precisely because the party knew that a candidate running primarily on the issue of slavery would be unelectable.

    The South simply wasn't willing to compromise at all, unfortunately.

    And your claim that "the legacy of the Confederacy does no more to foster hate or violence than any other American institution" is one of the grandest examples of a false equivalency I have ever seen. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that brought about the KKK and Jim Crow. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that gave impetus to those who opposed the Civil Rights struggle, who opposed desegregation (such as the "segregation academies" that still exist in the South to this day - I should know, since I attended one). It was the legacy of the Confederacy that kept Vicksburg, MS (where I lived for a while) from celebrating our nation's Independence Day for eighty-one years after the end of the Civil War.
    You're aware that there have been numerous incarnations of the KKK, right? Only the first had anything whatsoever to do with Confederacy, and that was simply because it happened to be an insurgent group made up of Southern veterans from the Civil War.

    Among the Klan's later incarnations, the strongest bastion for roughly half of the Twentieth Century was the Midwest, not the South. Indiana, in point of fact, had the highest rate of Klan membership per capita in the entire country prior to 1940, and they tended to be just as focused on Catholics (the largest lynch mob in American history was actually formed to try and capture some random foreigner at a train station which wild rumor held was secretly the Pope in disguise) and European immigrants as they ever were African Americans.

    Where the modern Klan, which legitimately was reformed to deal with the issue of desegregation in the 1960s, is concerned, they have about as much to do with the actual C.S.A. as the Waffen S.S. had to do with the medieval order of the Teutonic Knights - which is to say, next to nothing at all. Just because a bunch of whackjobs try to co-opt a certain symbol in order to bolster their own perceived legitimacy, doesn't mean that they are correct in doing so.

    For that matter, it's not even like Segregation was an exclusively Southern phenomenon anyway. It was simply a bit more "official" in the South, so it was more of a public struggle to get rid of it.

    Sooo... Yea. Sorry, man. I don't see any way in which either the C.S.A., or "Southern culture," is tied to what happened in Charleston. It was the act of a lone, and highly disturbed, individual, which has subsequently been condemned from basically all corners of the political spectrum.

    The sooner people stop trying to make it into something it's not in the interests of fueling their own regional/cultural bigotry and ideological biases, the better.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-20-15 at 08:40 AM.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Yes, TD looks at the comments section of a site and assumes that those anonymous individuals who post such comments speak for all liberals and lefties.

    This would be very much like me pointing to comments by white supremacists and claiming they speak for all conservatives and righties.

    But that is what's called a broad-brush logical fallacy - and it's stupid. I know that, and that's why I don't do that. TD hasn't learned this yet, apparently.
    Well then...isn't it broad brush stupid for liberals to brand all gun owners with the same brush when one of the kooks commits mass murder? That's what the left does when it screams "gun control" every time one of the few nutjobs starts shooting.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Again...you need to recognize the problem before you formulate solutions.
    You should take your own advice and recognize the actual problem. And it's not the guns. It's for the most part a combination of drug abuse and a revolving door criminal justice system.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Well then...isn't it broad brush stupid for liberals to brand all gun owners with the same brush when one of the kooks commits mass murder? That's what the left does when it screams "gun control" every time one of the few nutjobs starts shooting.
    Why are so many on the right, absolutists? Apparently because they believe all of their opponents think exactly the same way, they see every statement by those advocating "gun control" as attacks on all gun owners.

    Please show us a statement by a group promoting "gun control" that places the blame for gun deaths on all gun owners.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Do you have citation or source for that?
    Here is a source for the first one:
    BUSTED: Media Fails to Mention Vegas Shooters Involvement in "Occupy Movement" -

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I saw clips of the 19 year old son of one of the victims, Chris Singleton. He was speaking with his baseball team standing behind him. In addition to be amazingly articulate for a young person, he stressed how he forgave the shooter. He spoke about his mother, and how she loved to pray for him and his sister. If you have a chance, watch it. Tears came to my eyes.

    Chris Singleton Delivers Inspiring Speech After Losing His Mom in Charleston Church Shooting | E! Online

    Here is a young man who was personally impacted by this. He lost his mother in the most horrific way. Yet unlike the internet keyboard warriors, he didn't blame Fox News and the GOP. He didn't call for people to "mobilize". He didn't scream and rant and point fingers at the gun manufacturers. He spoke of love and forgiveness.

    Many people, including many on this board, should shut their mouths and close their fingers, and let someone who this tragedy really impacted speak. This is the way this should be. This young man is a damn inspiration.
    Those affected by this tragedy also make the likes of Obama and Al Sharpton look quite small in comparison. Sharpton incited riots over police shootings which were in all cases but one, justified. The victims of this tragedy forgave and inspired.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    no one else seems to find your onion citation to have any merit. it was silly because it whined about a problem and had no solutions. its point was to try to demonize gun ownership without having the courage to call for gun bans that it wants
    Perhaps someone should point out to threegoofs that the "Onion" is not a serious news source, It is almost exclusively into parody.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    We own a gun and we use it only for sport. We are members of a gun club and enjoy target practicing. We have never once thought of taking another person's life with it. I have always found comments like this very disturbing and paranoid. Ask any active duty Vet and they will tell you, it looks a lot easier on TV than it is in real life.
    It gets easier when it comes down to the point of "kill or be killed". Any combat vet will tell you that as well,.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry - we're different people. You start from a base where every conflict is racism and I start from a base where no conflict is racism. I can easily move, as in this case, to recognize racism for what it is and call it out for what it is. You, on the other hand, can't move from your base belief because your fall back position is if it isn't blatant racism it must be covert racism. Such a sad world you live in.

    However, racism really isn't in dispute here - we both agree the actions of this young man stem from racial hatred. What we don't agree on is your obsessed need to attribute that racism to conservative politics. You paint an entire political ideology as racist and that's what makes your comments bigotry. Sorry, it is what it is.
    When the American left accuses conservatives of racism, they are really only attempting to assuage their own side's guilt as it was democrats in the deep south who founded the Ku Klux Klan. One of their most revered leaders, the late dmocrat senator Robert Byrd was a grand cyclops and kleagle in the klan. And it was democrat governor George Wallace who attempted to block African American Students from entering the University of Alabama. And the longest filibuster of the Civil Rights Act was held by Senator Byrd.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by ObamacareFail View Post
    Well then...isn't it broad brush stupid for liberals to brand all gun owners with the same brush when one of the kooks commits mass murder? That's what the left does when it screams "gun control" every time one of the few nutjobs starts shooting.
    We actually just don't like the people sho kill other people, especially multiple people, with guns.

    And discussing gun control when nutjobs shoot (roughly on a monthly basis in the U.S.), is pretty logical. No one is blaming *all* gun owners, despite the fevered postings of most of the gun nuts.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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