Page 90 of 116 FirstFirst ... 40808889909192100 ... LastLast
Results 891 to 900 of 1152

Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

  1. #891
    Canadian Conservative
    CanadaJohn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Toronto, Ontario, Canada
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 07:34 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    26,183

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    "Bigoted nonsense". Hmph.

    If mine is bigoted nonsense, then yours is simple (and perhaps willful) ignorance. You haven't lived it, you haven't seen it firsthand...and I have. You dismiss the political dynamic of the 1950's and 60's as if that was too long ago to make any difference today...but you really have no clue.

    For instance, Mississippi didn't officially ratify the 13th Amendment - you know, the one that outlawed slavery - until the year TWO THOUSAND THIRTEEN. Yes, that was TWO YEARS ago, sir. Oh, they'll say that the vote to do so was passed in the MS congress back in 1995, that it was an "administrative error" that kept them from sending it in to D.C. to finalize the ratification...but those of us who grew up down there and understand what it's like know better. It's just like in 1984, when I walked down the street in Shaw, MS where I graduated high school a few years before - the "whites" and "coloreds" signs were still posted above the two segregated entrances to the only doctor's office in town. No one raised an eyebrow - it's just the way it was, even twenty years after the passage of the Civil Rights Act.

    Imagine that - Mississippi didn't ratify the amendment banning slavery until 138 freaking years AFTER the amendment became part of our Constitution...but YOU would have us believe that the politics down there doesn't have anything to do with racism. You, sir, haven't a freaking clue.

    And explaining this to you appears to be sorta like explaining color to a man who has worn completely-blackened goggles since birth: you could take off the blinders at any time and see what colors are really like, but until you do so, any explanation of color to you is nothing more than nonsense.
    Sorry - we're different people. You start from a base where every conflict is racism and I start from a base where no conflict is racism. I can easily move, as in this case, to recognize racism for what it is and call it out for what it is. You, on the other hand, can't move from your base belief because your fall back position is if it isn't blatant racism it must be covert racism. Such a sad world you live in.

    However, racism really isn't in dispute here - we both agree the actions of this young man stem from racial hatred. What we don't agree on is your obsessed need to attribute that racism to conservative politics. You paint an entire political ideology as racist and that's what makes your comments bigotry. Sorry, it is what it is.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

  2. #892
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    11-30-16 @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    14,748

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post
    No one is denying that the Confederacy's cause was ultimately wrong. That is why they lost.

    However, acting like this means that the C.S.A. was some unmitigated evil, which all Southerners and White Americans must vehemently deny and hold their heads in shame when acknowledging, is taking things a step too far.

    The simple fact of the matter is that the root causes of the American Civil War were always more political and economic than they were ever racial or humanitarian. Pretending like the Union was some bastion of egalitarianism and racial compassion, where the C.S.A. was an inhuman charnel house, is simply bunk as such. The reality of the situation was far more complicated than that.

    Most Northerners couldn't have cared less about slavery. They simply wanted to preserve the Union intact. Likewise, even Lincoln, the "Great Emancipator," ultimately didn't have any form of "multiculturalism" in mind when he (almost unilaterally, and with great controversy) moved to free the slaves. His idea was actually to ship them all back to Africa at the first available opportunity.

    At the end of the day, the legacy of the Confederacy does no more to foster hate or violence than any other American institution. A handful of idiots have simply co-opted it for that purpose, as such fringe political minorities are wont to do with any number of (ultimately arbitrary) national, historical, and ethnic symbols.
    Um, no. As I said before in so many words, I agree that the Union was not a nation of innocent angels - YES, there were many in the North who didn't care about slavery one way or another...but most did, which is why most of those who they elected opposed slavery. YES, Lincoln supported repatriation to Liberia...but he also obviously eventually recognized that slavery was morally wrong; else he would not have supported repatriation, much less have opposed the creation of more slave states prior to the war.

    And your claim that "the legacy of the Confederacy does no more to foster hate or violence than any other American institution" is one of the grandest examples of a false equivalency I have ever seen. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that brought about the KKK and Jim Crow. It was the legacy of the Confederacy that gave impetus to those who opposed the Civil Rights struggle, who opposed desegregation (such as the "segregation academies" that still exist in the South to this day - I should know, since I attended one). It was the legacy of the Confederacy that kept Vicksburg, MS (where I lived for a while) from celebrating our nation's Independence Day for eighty-one years after the end of the Civil War.

    Bear in mind that I grew up loving what my family considered the legacy and traditions of the Confederacy. In the cemetery beside Linn Baptist Church in Sunflower County, MS, my entire family line including my brother, my mother and her brother, my grandmother and most of her siblings, my great-grandmother and great-grandfather, and my great-great grandmother and great-great grandfather are all buried, beginning in 1870. I have very deep roots there indeed...and I know whereof I speak. I loved the legacy of the Confederacy...until I began to understand what that legacy really was.

    Apparently you haven't come to that understanding yet.

    No sir, your claim is a false equivalency, a demonstrably erroneous attempt to say that everybody was equally bad, or equally at fault. I just hope that you're courageous enough to admit - even if only to yourself - the depth and breadth of your error.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  3. #893
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    11-30-16 @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    14,748

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Jack Hays View Post
    Fair enough. Although in my case the fact of the SA's political role as an impediment to change is more important than any theological consideration. One historical point to consider: since 18th century militia members often provided their own weapons, the first clause adds weight to the second rather than limiting it.
    That makes no difference in the overall debate. The preparatory clause and the debate during the Constitutional Convention over whether we should even have a standing army at all make it obvious that the whole purpose of the SA was to ensure that if there was no standing army, we would at least have an armed militia to help defend our nation against invasion - which was truly a concern at the time, as the British made plain about twenty-five years later. The implication is clear: if we have a standing army, then there is no need for an armed militia...and so the need for the SA is obviated.

    Don't get me wrong - like most liberals, I strongly support the right of law-abiding citizens to purchase and keep firearms, but with limits. I support full registration of firearms, background checks for all purchases (public or private), and restrictions against certain types of firearms and attachments...and the idea that these eminently sensible measures are somehow tyrannical...is sheer lunacy. And every year we have thousands of innocent men, women, and children killed (deliberately or accidentally) simply because so many Americans can't see past their own gun fetish.

    I don't even own a gun - I don't need one. If I lived back where I grew up in MS, I'd sure as heck have guns in the house, at least one good pistol for self-defense (since the boonies are normally a significantly higher-crime area than the suburbs), a 12-gauge for larger wild animals and the occasional rabid dog, and a .410 for smaller varmints, especially cottonmouths and the relatively new crossbreed we call 'rattlemocs', which is exactly what it sounds like). But where I live, I don't need one.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  4. #894
    Sage
    Glen Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Bernie to the left of me, Hillary to the right, here I am...
    Last Seen
    11-30-16 @ 02:27 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Progressive
    Posts
    14,748

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    Sorry - we're different people. You start from a base where every conflict is racism and I start from a base where no conflict is racism. I can easily move, as in this case, to recognize racism for what it is and call it out for what it is. You, on the other hand, can't move from your base belief because your fall back position is if it isn't blatant racism it must be covert racism. Such a sad world you live in.

    However, racism really isn't in dispute here - we both agree the actions of this young man stem from racial hatred. What we don't agree on is your obsessed need to attribute that racism to conservative politics. You paint an entire political ideology as racist and that's what makes your comments bigotry. Sorry, it is what it is.
    Where did I paint an "entire ideology" as racist? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

    Where did I EVER say or even imply that "every conflict is racism"? 'Scuse you, but I never did so.

    Both of those are just you wanting to assign your assumptions to me...and both are flat wrong.

    I pointed out at length prime examples of how racism is part and parcel of politics and society in the Deep South - and it's hard to believe that you now know that Mississippi didn't ratify the 13th Amendment until 2013 - TWO freaking years ago - and yet still maintain that racism doesn't play a significant role in Southern politics! Apparently, this is yet another manifestation of the modern conservative stance that if you pretend racism doesn't exist, sooner or later it will magically go away all on its lonesome.

    But I guess it's like the old saying - you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink.
    “To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

  5. #895
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 08:53 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    14,929

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    I saw clips of the 19 year old son of one of the victims, Chris Singleton. He was speaking with his baseball team standing behind him. In addition to be amazingly articulate for a young person, he stressed how he forgave the shooter. He spoke about his mother, and how she loved to pray for him and his sister. If you have a chance, watch it. Tears came to my eyes.

    Chris Singleton Delivers Inspiring Speech After Losing His Mom in Charleston Church Shooting | E! Online

    Here is a young man who was personally impacted by this. He lost his mother in the most horrific way. Yet unlike the internet keyboard warriors, he didn't blame Fox News and the GOP. He didn't call for people to "mobilize". He didn't scream and rant and point fingers at the gun manufacturers. He spoke of love and forgiveness.

    Many people, including many on this board, should shut their mouths and close their fingers, and let someone who this tragedy really impacted speak. This is the way this should be. This young man is a damn inspiration.
    So true.
    I guess that comes from them living their Faith.
    btw, I'm familiar with that tears to your eyes sensation.
    Better never than late.

  6. #896
    Global Moderator
    Moderator

    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Last Seen
    @
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    28,725

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    We own a gun and we use it only for sport. We are members of a gun club and enjoy target practicing. We have never once thought of taking another person's life with it. I have always found comments like this very disturbing and paranoid. Ask any active duty Vet and they will tell you, it looks a lot easier on TV than it is in real life.
    If you find my post “disturbing” and “paranoid,” then you’ve leaped, after making a number of assumptions, to a very hasty conclusion.

  7. #897
    Sage
    ObamacareFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    10,426

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Unaffiliated View Post
    Nixon was for gun control
    Bush 1 was for gun control
    Reagan was for gun control


    All major GOP heroes.

    I am a staunch conservative and I am not for gun control. What's your point? And since when is Nixon a GOP hero?

  8. #898
    Sage
    ObamacareFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    10,426

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    And there's the problem - what liberals (and the governments and populations of every other first-world democracy on the planet) see as common sense - required registration, required safety training, restriction of firearms and magazines that have no purpose in the civilian community - YOU see as "harassment"...

    ...never mind that in EVERY first-world democracy around the world today, where that "harassment" is found, the society is MUCH less violent...and far fewer innocent people are murdered. Pick a first-world democracy - ANY first-world democracy - other than America, and what do you find? That it's a heck of a lot SAFER to walk down the streets at night than it is in America...

    ...and this holds true even in nations with significantly larger Muslim populations than our own (for those Islamophobes out there).

    But I forget - going through even a little bureaucratic hassle to legally own guns is TYRANNYYYYYYY!!!!! But if thousands more innocent men, women, and children die because we've got more guns than people in America, well, THAT's quite acceptable, 'cause freedom, y'know!
    There are roughly 130 million Americans who possess guns. There are over 3 million guns owned by American citizens. Yet only a tiny fraction of 1% use them to commit any crime much less murder. Do the math. The right to possess firearms is not the problem. And btw, gun violence is actually down by roughly 40% since 1994.

  9. #899
    Educator
    Join Date
    Sep 2014
    Last Seen
    07-18-15 @ 12:26 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Liberal
    Posts
    731

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by andy love View Post
    Liberal cities are the TOP Crime and MURDER.
    All cities are liberal, so of course all high-crime cities are liberal... Also all the lowest crime cities. And all the cities with the most rollerskating rinks, all the cities with the fewest car washes and all the cities with the most consonants in their names.

  10. #900
    Sage
    ObamacareFail's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2014
    Location
    Earth
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 05:52 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    10,426

    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    There is so much yet to learn. Was anybody monitoring Roof's response to the med?

    Roof's roommate is now giving interviews and claiming that Roof had been planning something for six months. Why didn't the roommate speak up? What was Roof doing to pay the rent?
    He probably figured out that his roomate was mentally ill but may not have believed that he would actually do it.

Page 90 of 116 FirstFirst ... 40808889909192100 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •