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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    His friends and family have come out and said it. Including an uncle and his roommate. Which brings up the disturbing question of, If these people knew this about him. Why didnt they notify someone? Get him help? something. They ignored it.
    Thanks for your response. In this articel they're saying that now. All these insane crimes can be solved with hindsight. Charleston shooting suspect appears in court - CNN.com

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    It isn't. Explain how that article addresses how gun control laws will decrease these types of shooting and how those laws should read.
    Changes in gun laws may or may not achieve a reduction in crime. Sadly, since crime can be reduced by any number of factors, there is no accurate methodolgy available by social scientists to isolate gun laws apart from other factors like more police, community policing, agin demographics, increased incarceration, better job opportunities or any number of other issues. It simply cannot be done.

    So to challenge anyone to present those statistics is impossible and cannot be done.

    What is the real opportunity is to change the culture in the USA over long period of time away from such a heavy dominance of guns in that same culture. And that will require all sorts of measures both legal and social and will take a great deal of effort and time to do. Only when the USA has a culture that lessens the appeal of the gun itself and our reliance upon it, will we see real changes.

    And that is one of the purposes of gun control legislation - to make us less of a gun centric society.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Watched the first court appearance at 9 tonight on BBC news 24 where the suspected killer stood impassively while the relatives stood and forgave him his actions.

    What amazing people, I know tensions are high in the US over the whole black lives matter thing, these people's dignity and hurt touched me tonight and I hope there are no riots or increases in tension over these senseless killings. Personally I hope he isn't executed but has to rot his life away in prison knowing that his attempt to bring about racial war fails.

    Thoughts are with the families, I don't know if I could forgive.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    It isn't. Explain how that article addresses how gun control laws will decrease these types of shooting and how those laws should read.
    Before you can consider solutions, you have to recognize the problem.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So to challenge anyone to present those statistics is impossible and cannot be done.
    If people are claiming that we need gun laws to prevent these things from happening it is fair to ask them what laws they think will achieve what they claim and why the believe those laws would achieve it. There is a difference between saying

    Changes in gun laws may or may not achieve a reduction in crime.
    and
    And that is one of the purposes of gun control legislation - to make us less of a gun centric society.
    and
    Only when the USA has a culture that lessens the appeal of the gun itself and our reliance upon it, will we see real changes.
    and saying that we need gun laws to prevent these events, and people shouldn't own guns and conservatives are responsible nonsense that these two are spouting. You statements are your opinions. I am sure you have given that some thought and it is well worded. It is not an opinion I share, but I respect that and would welcome an actual discussion. The nonsense they are spouting as fact and refusing to even attempt to substantiate is completely different.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Before you can consider solutions, you have to recognize the problem.
    You haven't proposed any solutions.

    What are you saying the problem is?

    For the record, if you keep replying and not saying anything we aren't going to get anywhere. You are making claims, but you are refusing to actually discuss it. Explain what you are saying and why you think it will work.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Jon Stewart on last night's Daily Show:

    I honestly have nothing other than just sadness once again that we have to peer into the abyss of the depraved violence that we do to each other and the nexus of a just gaping racial wound that will not heal, yet we pretend doesn’t exist. And I’m confident, though, that by acknowledging it, by staring into that and seeing it for what it is, we still won’t do jack s—. Yeah. That’s us.

    And that’s the part that blows my mind. I don’t want to get into the political argument of the guns and things. But what blows my mind is the disparity of response between when we think people that are foreign are going to kill us, and us killing ourselves.

    If this had been what we thought was Islamic terrorism, it would fit into our — we invaded two countries and spent trillions of dollars and thousands of American lives and now fly unmanned death machines over five or six different countries, all to keep Americans safe. We got to do whatever we can. We’ll torture people. We gotta do whatever we can to keep Americans safe.

    Nine people shot in a church. What about that? “Hey, what are you gonna do? Crazy is as crazy is, right?” That’s the part that I cannot, for the life of me, wrap my head around, and you know it. You know that it’s going to go down the same path. “This is a terrible tragedy.” They’re already using the nuanced language of lack of effort for this. This is a terrorist attack. This is a violent attack on the Emanuel Church in South Carolina, which is a symbol for the black community. It has stood in that part of Charleston for 100 and some years and has been attacked viciously many times, as many black churches have.

    I heard someone on the news say “Tragedy has visited this church.” This wasn’t a tornado. This was a racist. This was a guy with a Rhodesia badge on his sweater. You know, so the idea that — you know, I hate to even use this pun, but this one is black and white. There’s no nuance here.

    And we’re going to keep pretending like, “I don’t get it. What happened? This one guy lost his mind.” But we are steeped in that culture in this country and we refuse to recognize it, and I cannot believe how hard people are working to discount it. In South Carolina, the roads that black people drive on are named for Confederate generals who fought to keep black people from being able to drive freely on that road. That’s insanity. That’s racial wallpaper. That’s — that’s — you can’t allow that, you know.

    Nine people were shot in a black church by a white guy who hated them, who wanted to start some kind of civil war. The Confederate flag flies over South Carolina, and the roads are named for Confederate generals, and the white guy’s the one who feels like his country is being taken away from him. We’re bringing it on ourselves. And that’s the thing. Al-Qaeda, all those guys, ISIS, they’re not s— compared to the damage that we can apparently do to ourselves on a regular basis.

    So our guest tonight is an incredible person who suffered unspeakable violence by extremists, and her perseverance and determination through that to continue on is an incredible inspiration. And to be quite honest with you, I don’t think there’s anyone else in the world I would rather talk to tonight than Malala. So that’s what we’re going to do. And sorry about no jokes.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Jon Stewart on last night's Daily Show:


    The "culture" of South Carolina was in no way, shape, or form connected to this man's actions.

    I mean... Hell, man! The little sh*t was wearing a jacket with the flags of two nations that don't even exist on the same continent as the Southeastern United States on it.

    What on God's green Earth does that have to do with a Confederate flag being flown over the state house, or a few roads being named after Confederate generals?

    Should we cover our history in politically correct "white wash" simply because there's an off chance that some fringe lunatic might take it the wrong way? I'm sorry, but no. The very idea is absurd.

    There is, quite frankly, no real evidence to suggest that's what even happened here to begin with.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gathomas88 View Post


    The "culture" of South Carolina was in no way, shape, or form connected to this man's actions.

    I mean... Hell, man! The little sh*t was wearing a jacket with the flags of two nations that don't even exist on the same continent as the Southeastern United States on it.

    What on God's green Earth does that have to do with a Confederate flag being flown over the state house, or a few roads being named after Confederate generals?

    Should we cover our history in politically correct "white wash" simply because there's an off chance that some fringe lunatic might take it the wrong way? I'm sorry, but no.

    The very idea is absurd.
    You don't think the not-so-subtly racist culture of the old Confederacy had any influence on this moron's worldview? Seriously?
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    You don't think the not-so-subtly racist culture of the old Confederacy had any influence on this moron's worldview? Seriously?
    What culture would that be, exactly?

    Point to it, and those aspects of it which have anything whatsoever to do with the mass murder of African Americans. The "Old Confederacy" itself never supported such a thing, for God's sakes.
    Last edited by Gathomas88; 06-19-15 at 04:43 PM.

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