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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    You had to go back 40 or 50 years to find one or two? Were you even alive then?

    The CNN article said there were 34 killings by right wing extremists since 9/11 and zero by left wing extremists.....

    http://www.debatepolitics.com/breaki...post1064732556
    The study that CNN cites appears to be biased (not surprisingly). For example, the following attacks of terrorism are not classified as leftist:

    - Murder of two police officers by political activists last seen attending "Occupier" rallies and pissed because they could not afford health care.
    - Murder of four police officers by an individual known to make "revolutionary" comments and outbursts
    - Ambush murder of one police officer by an individual actively affiliated with leftist groups

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    I love this! Posters here ask "how can he feel this way" or where did he get such views"? Hey! Anyone actually believe hatred in America is dead? It is alive and well in all facets of our decaying culture. Our once professional people are gangsters, our politicians are nothing but name callers avoiding solutions while pursuing the opponents to put all of the blame on for all the wrong in this "good ol' USA". Our youth is rotting in ignorance, schools cheat on test scores instead of taking the challenge of educating. We have long ago lost the war on drugs. Our soldiers are dying on false promises form our lying, filthy leaders pledging to get them out of harms way until they get elected. Everyone cheats and now including baseball and football entire organizations instead of players. Our incomes are shrinking while the cost of living continues to soar. Our media is riddled with murder, rape, infidelity and drug abuse. 80 million Americans own a firearm and not because they like to hunt but rather because they are feeling like the hunted and are frightened. Where did this young man get his views? Open your eyes, he simply picked are target to blame the retched state of our society and acted on it. He picked race while he could have picked many different issues. I wonder if he was a Muslim radical if race would have been the headline. Have a nice day.
    While your post is pretty depressing, I have to say you really make a lot of excellent points.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by rhinefire View Post
    I love this! Posters here ask "how can he feel this way" or where did he get such views"? Hey! Anyone actually believe hatred in America is dead? It is alive and well in all facets of our decaying culture. Our once professional people are gangsters, our politicians are nothing but name callers avoiding solutions while pursuing the opponents to put all of the blame on for all the wrong in this "good ol' USA". Our youth is rotting in ignorance, schools cheat on test scores instead of taking the challenge of educating. We have long ago lost the war on drugs. Our soldiers are dying on false promises form our lying, filthy leaders pledging to get them out of harms way until they get elected. Everyone cheats and now including baseball and football entire organizations instead of players. Our incomes are shrinking while the cost of living continues to soar. Our media is riddled with murder, rape, infidelity and drug abuse. 80 million Americans own a firearm and not because they like to hunt but rather because they are feeling like the hunted and are frightened. Where did this young man get his views? Open your eyes, he simply picked are target to blame the retched state of our society and acted on it. He picked race while he could have picked many different issues. I wonder if he was a Muslim radical if race would have been the headline. Have a nice day.
    Quoted for truth. Our society is filled to the rafters with people avoiding responsibility. Crappy politicians. And 0 effort to fix our culture which is sinking into a pit of vulgarity.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    And that sounds like a bunch of bigotry to me. You get nowhere in dealing with racism when you paint an entire region of your country and everyone who lives there as ingrained with, understanding, and tolerant of racism.
    Well, when you equate "most" with "everyone who lives there" then there will be some misunderstanding.

    It's difficult to quantify because it isn't acceptable any longer to say the n word, or express openly racist views, but racism isn't unusual at all in this area. In my lifetime, state enforced racism still existed, and those deeply racist views just simply were ingrained for centuries here and they haven't died out. Someone 60 years old (born 1955) spent their formative years in a region where racism was not only accepted it was the LAW. If you were born in the 1960s (now in your 40s or 50s) around the time of the CRA, racism was no longer the LAW, but both your white parents were almost surely racists and so that's what you almost surely learned as a child.

    So it's not a stretch at all to say that "most" adults understand racism, because most of their parents, if they are over 40, were racists. The retirees who grew up here were, most of them, racists as children because that was the LAW at that time, and those laws had large majorities of support among whites. So of course there is more "understanding" and "tolerance" of at least casual racism because those older lived in a time and place where PROUD and overt racism was just the way it was in the white community.

    And there simply are lots of pockets in this region that are isolated from outside influences and haven't changed a whole lot. Anyone who thinks they don't exist and represent some significant share of the white, especially rural population is just kidding themselves.

    IMO, most of the problem is just ingrained ignorance as much as racism. And so where it persists in large numbers are in the still highly segregated areas, and in poor rural areas, where frankly a bunch of idiot losers and white trash need someone to look down on and blacks are the historical target. It's why if you look at any attempt to graph racism, it runs predictably in the deep South for historical reasons, and in the mountain regions stretching into the NE that is home to lots of poor whites and is nearly 100% white.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Puigb View Post
    A lot of those "Nationalist Socialists" in Europe are just that...socialists (economically). That's my point with regards to the new black panthers. Just because they may have left leaning economic views doesn't necessarily make them "leftists groups". Socially, they have far more in common with your average right winger than your average left winger.
    I can see your point, though Nazi economic policies were not "socialist" in the same sense as that of the USSR, Rather, they were a form of state capitalism where almost all businesses remained in private hands and only the largest companies while they remained private, had various degrees of government over site.

    This discussion over whether or not the Black Panthers were leftists illustrates that politics is not linear (right to left), but at times, it is circular with extreme left and far right blurring together. The Back Panthers, and to a lesser degree, IRA are examples of this. In addition, some political figures also blurred the boundaries:

    - Huey Long: Though a populist and supportive of small and mid size capitalism, made a lot of references about restricting large businesses, banks and large scale sharecropper land holders (his family were sharecroppers)

    -Father Coughlin: An anti semetic nationalist who disliked large companies for a variety of reasons including economic, social and religious.

    - Vladimir Putin: The guy uses a mix of right wing nationalistic and communist imagery. Uses both ideologies as justification for aggression. The Russian government is a partial owner of most large companies and the some capitalists are both a CEO and a government official who directs economic policy.
    Last edited by Cryptic; 06-19-15 at 08:09 AM.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Once again, I'll post this. Seems like I have to look this up every few months.

    ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens - The Onion - America's Finest News Source
    The onion? And even more than that, an Onion article that offers a grand total of 0 solutions.
    Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    Well, first, I don't think they're any more effective than the death penalty is at reducing the risk of terror attacks. By and large, those willing to commit terrorist attacks are quite ready to pay the ultimate price. These are folks who seek attention for their horrific crimes and we've already given them a spiffy name - terrorists. Oooohhh, how scary. Just feeds into their power grab.

    Do you think labeling someone as a terrorist makes them less likely to commit harmful acts? Isn't it a bit on the sensationalist side? Look what it did for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Put his likeness smack dab on the cover of Rolling Stones, and made the little girls swoon. That was really effective, wasn't it?

    Bottom line - I don't think the scary labels work - and I think there's a good chance that they'll work against us.
    I think creating a separate offense makes it easier to keep people like terrorist and people that commit hate crimes in jail. Not everyone prosecuted of a hate crime or terrorism was effective in murdering someone. They may of been planning, they may of tried to purchase material for a bomb. A lot of hate crimes include the destruction of property.

    the fact is...acts of terror and hate crimes are added offenses because, in the words of Chief Justice Rehnquist, "this conduct is thought to inflict greater individual and societal harm.... bias-motivated crimes are more likely to provoke retaliatory crimes, inflict distinct emotional harms on their victims, and incite community unrest."
    Capitalism is the astounding belief that the most wickedest of men will do the most wickedest of things for the greatest good of everyone. John Maynard Keynes

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Why don't you answer the question?
    I dont think that destruction of property and the execution of human beings are comparable.

    And beyond its being ugly in its timing and opportunism and insensitivity, the partisan comments you and others have been making serve to diminish this tragedy by making it about sides. Why do you want to be so divisive and petty at a time such as this? This is a time, in my opinion, when the nation needs to come together.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by tres borrachos View Post
    Ted Bundy's victims were all carefully selected because they resembled the girl who broke up with him in college. His spree went on for many years.

    Roof, like that POS in Newtown, selected the most vulnerable of victims - obviously unarmed churchgoers. Only slightly above unarmed 1st graders in terms of vulnerability.

    People who target children, the elderly and animals are all sick cowards who intentionally select those who can not defend themselves. That's what this guy did. He had no interest in a civil war. He harbors some kind of demons in his head.
    You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

    Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    You're neglecting the fact that SC and the rest of the Deep South are still vehemently racist. The guy didn't start a race war; a race war already exists in that part of the country.

    Despite the image SC officials are trying to portray to the rest of the country, the perp who shot up the church will be hailed as a hero by most of the Whites living in SC.
    You say that, but where are all these whites hailing him as a hero? Goshin, I think its Goshin, lives there. And has already stated in this thread that everyone down there he has heard from, talked to has condemned this attack, even specifically mentioned rednecks condemning this in an earlier post. Your view of people in the south is clearly twisted. Turn off the tv, and go to SC. Meet the people there.
    Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.
    Stephen R. Covey


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