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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    We can boil it down simpler, you as a anti rights advocate (becuase there's nothing liberal about demanding the state violate peoples civil rights) do not believe in a total ban, just a regulatory framework so expensive and complicated for so little benefit that no one bothers to do it. Got it
    Um, 'scuse you, but my post was part of a side discussion that had nothing to do with gun rights. Haymarket had connected the racist beliefs of the shooter to politics in the area, and CanadaJohn was trying to claim that there's no connection between racism and politics.

    Next time, please make sure that you really understand what someone's post is about before you start slamming that post.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    I think most people realize that this is plain evil and does not represent all whites or all young people or all males.

    I just want to know that if what being reported is the .45 caliber pistol was a birthday present from his father is true. If it was, why did he think the perfect gift for a 9th grade dropout without any desire to work and been arrested for possession of a controlled substance would be a gun?

    ".... It's uncertain who bought the gun Roof used.

    A senior law enforcement source told CNN the suspect's father had recently bought him a .45-caliber gun for his 21st birthday in April.

    But Roof's grandfather says it was just "birthday money" and that the family didn't know what Roof did with that money...."

    Charleston church shooting suspect arrested in N.C. - CNN.com



    I've also read where his uncle said that the father bought him a gun for his birthday as well.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by nota bene View Post
    Moot, why don't you provide us with a list of mass murderers and what their political leans were?
    Why don't you answer the question?

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    as I recall, John Wayne Gacy (the basement dwellers fame) was a Democrat party official in Chicago. The zebra killer(s) were hardly conservatives either.
    That reminds me, Ted Bundy worked for the RNC in Seattle. Both Gacy and Bundy were serial killers which is different breed in itself. But hey, nice try at deflection and moving the goal posts. Wanna see a list for Republican sex offenders?

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, no, required firearm registration does not violate the fourth amendment any more than require vehicle registration.
    I know, courts these days will uphold anything on nothing more then irrational paranoia... sad really
    I said, ban EXTENDED magazines, not standard mags, guy. Please don't try to twist my words.
    same difference, something tells me you don't like the factory standard magazines I own that are 12 and 17 rounds
    If the idiot in SC hadn't had to change clips five times, how many more would have died?
    I don't know, and neither do you. more might not have died, fewer may have died, there was a mass shooting in England 5 years ago where the shooter racked up a 25% higher body count with a double barrel.




    Are you referring to my support of mandatory firearm safety training? And you're seriously claiming this has no public safety justification? Dude...you really should read the news sometime.
    mandatory training does not, there is no statistical difference in accidents that stands out between states that have said training and ones that do not.

    Did I say REGULAR rifles? Of course not - that's just you making up crap.
    if you used accurate language to describe your intentions no one would support you. so you have to make stuff up like "military sniper rifle"
    Of course, REGULAR rifles are among the LEAST problematic firearms. But there is NO justification for the public to have AUTOMATIC
    which are next to never used in any crime, and in fact weren't really used for crime before the 34 and 86 bans.
    firearms or military-grade sniper rifles.
    like a scoped remington 700? a .308 bolt? an M-1C garand sniper? there is no distinction between military sniper rifles and civilian rifles. in fact civilian firearms have always followed military developments.




    I believe you'll find that just about ALL first-world democracies - including Switzerland and Israel - already do have laws with all the above requirements.[/QUOTE]
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    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, 'scuse you, but my post was part of a side discussion that had nothing to do with gun rights. Haymarket had connected the racist beliefs of the shooter to politics in the area, and CanadaJohn was trying to claim that there's no connection between racism and politics.

    Next time, please make sure that you really understand what someone's post is about before you start slamming that post.
    I only addressed what you wrote. you certainly weren't addressing racism and politics in the post i quoted.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr. Chuckles View Post
    No one cares about your stupid hippy logic
    "Be careful of averages, the average person has one breast and one testicle"
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    I think what you might be missing is the fact that racism and political beliefs are not mutually exclusive. Try living down in the Deep South sometime and you'll see what we mean. Or you could just re-read about the opposition against the Civil Rights Act in general and segregation in particular in the Deep South.

    What I'm getting at is that it's very, very difficult for someone who hasn't lived there to really understand just how deeply the racism is ingrained in Southern society...where among most whites there, racism is understood and tolerated...and IMO among most whites there aged 40 and over, accepted and even expected...

    ...and this does play very much into their politics.

    That's just the way it is in the Deep South.
    And that sounds like a bunch of bigotry to me. You get nowhere in dealing with racism when you paint an entire region of your country and everyone who lives there as ingrained with, understanding, and tolerant of racism.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    Um, 'scuse you, but my post was part of a side discussion that had nothing to do with gun rights. Haymarket had connected the racist beliefs of the shooter to politics in the area, and CanadaJohn was trying to claim that there's no connection between racism and politics.

    Next time, please make sure that you really understand what someone's post is about before you start slamming that post.
    My claim, if you want to be fair, is that there's no connection between the obvious racism in this incident and politics as far as we know at this point in time when the bodies are barely cold and not yet buried. To leap to a conclusion, a compulsion, to claim that conservative politics led to this massacre is what I object to.
    A Canadian conservative is one who believes in limited government and that the government should stay out of our wallets and out of our bedrooms.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    I know, courts these days will uphold anything on nothing more then irrational paranoia... sad really
    Yeah, the same kind of arguments was once made against seatbelt laws, too.

    same difference, something tells me you don't like the factory standard magazines I own that are 12 and 17 rounds I don't know, and neither do you. more might not have died, fewer may have died, there was a mass shooting in England 5 years ago where the shooter racked up a 25% higher body count with a double barrel.
    Hm, let me see here - you're saying that it's equally likely that LESS people would die if the shooter has, say, a 30-round extended mag for his pistol than if he 'only' has a 12-round mag? What you need to get, guy, is that we are not talking about what would or would not have happened in one particular instance. We are talking about LIKELIHOODS...and someone with a much larger magazine is much more likely to be able to fire his weapon more times before he needs to reload...and this means that he is MORE likely to kill MORE people. LIKELIHOODS, guy. No one knows what would or would not happen in one particular instance...but when we look at statistical LIKELIHOODS, the picture is much more easily understood.

    mandatory training does not, there is no statistical difference in accidents that stands out between states that have said training and ones that do not.
    Oh - NOW you want to talk statistical likelihoods, hm? Thing about statistics is, it takes more than just a glance at the numbers before one can make a judgement using those numbers. How was the training conducted? What were the requirements for that training? Was it required before one purchased a new class of firearm? Or was it a one-time training that covered everything and nobody needs the training a second time? And was the training really required, was it mandatory in nature? Or was it just offered to those who wanted it, since such people are more likely to be safe gun owners anyway?

    I really suggest you take some courses in stats, that you can learn how easy it is for statistics to be flawed...and how incredibly accurate they can be when properly gathered.

    if you used accurate language to describe your intentions no one would support you. so you have to make stuff up like "military sniper rifle" which are next to never used in any crime, and in fact weren't really used for crime before the 34 and 86 bans. like a scoped remington 700? a .308 bolt? an M-1C garand sniper? there is no distinction between military sniper rifles and civilian rifles. in fact civilian firearms have always followed military developments.
    There very much is a distinction between the rifles you listed above and the higher-end sniper rifles that the military uses today. The M24 system has an effective firing range that is three times that of the M1 Garand.

    And again, I believe you'll find that just about ALL first-world democracies - including Switzerland and Israel - already do have laws with all the requirements I listed previously.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
    My claim, if you want to be fair, is that there's no connection between the obvious racism in this incident and politics as far as we know at this point in time when the bodies are barely cold and not yet buried. To leap to a conclusion, a compulsion, to claim that conservative politics led to this massacre is what I object to.
    You stated that there is "no connection". First, that statement is a completed judgement. Second, racism - like every other 'ism' out there - plays a part in politics, not only on a national or regional level, but also on a personal level.

    Third, when I connect conservative politics to racism, I'm normally referring to Southern Conservative politics...and yes sir, in the Deep South, politics and racism are deeply entwined indeed. Anyone who says differently does so out either out of ignorance or is being intentionally misleading.

    Now, does all that absolutely guarantee that conservative politics led to the massacre? No. But modern conservative politics encourages a societal climate that makes such tragedies more likely. Here's a great example: in the 1950's and 1960's, did the conservative politicians in the Deep South condone lynchings? Of course not - those racist politicians condemned the lynchings again and again. But did their openly racist statements and policies make those same lynchings more likely? Yep, sure did.

    So the answer to the question of whether conservative politics led to the massacre in SC is: at least to some extent, almost certainly.
    To do evil, a human being must first of all believe that what hes doing is good" - Solzhenitsyn

    "...with the terrorists, you have to take out their families." - Donald Trump

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