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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kobie View Post
    Given his apparent outlook on race, his interest in Rhodesia and South Africa isn't hard to fathom.
    Wonder where the little **** got those views?

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Wonder where the little **** got those views?
    Who knows? I'm sure we'll find out more. Could have been from his upbringing, could have been from the interwebs. Or both.
    Freedom of speech is not freedom from criticism.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Good grief, I'll humor your trolling and weird obsession with me:
    I'm just questioning you on your own posts - that's hardly trolling or obsessive.

    But, Bravo! I'm glad to see that you're finally taking an interest in why different officers respond differently.



    Consistently, officers reacted the same exact way in the overwhelming majority of arrests. Here is my contention:

    the facts in these cases show that if police officers can respond without the suspect ending up dead in one scenario that it is possible to do it with others where the threat is nowhere near as high.
    Possible, yes, but let's examine what the reports says about officers that use force. Quotations from the report.

    Some situational factors may increase the
    chances that force of questionable legitimacy
    will be used. For example, officers sometimes
    use force on the slightest provocation follow-
    ing a high-speed car chase, when adrenaline
    levels are high. They may use force more fre-
    quently when they are alone, because they
    feel more vulnerable or believe that they can
    get away with it. They may use force more
    frequently as a way of emphasizing their
    authority when suspects are disrespectful or when there is a hostile audience to the
    encounter.
    That indicates that officers respond differently in different situations. Note that one of the reasons was if they "believe they can get away with it." Yes, there are some bad cops out there. Disrespecting law enforcement in general, is just silly. Every case has to weighed on the evidence, which is why whatever parallel you were trying to draw is moot.


    If the majority of police officers managed to resolve similar incidents the same way, how is it possible for others not to when the threat is not as high? Wait... there is more!
    Not a bad point, actually, and you're right - there is more. From the report:


    About 1 percent of people reporting con-
    tacts with police indicated that officers
    used force or threatened force. In the ma-
    jority of those instances, respondents said
    that their own actions, such as threatening
    police or resisting arrest, may have pro-
    voked officers.
    We've seen a lot of that lately, haven't we? The resisting arrest thing. It's a good thing even suspects understand when their actions trigger unwanted force against them.


    This statement shows that there is really no difference in policies. Cops across the board (and as per the study) treat people in accordance to the state of the person. So how is it possible for my statement to be wrong if the policies for that treatment and their use is the same across the board?
    I don't know that poster or why you feel the need to cite his post as evidence of anything, but you didn't actually make a statement - you made vague insinuations but you never came right out and stated your theory, although I asked you to do so. You've also made the comment about the "threat being higher" in some incidents than in others, but, hopefully, you understand that it's the officers who have to determine to what extent they feel threatened - not you. In the case of the wife killer, perhaps the officers knew the shooter and didn't feel threatened.

    All kinds of scenarios are in play in these incidents and drawing false parallels doesn't serve anything.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

  4. #414
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Wonder where the little **** got those views?
    My guess is the internet.

    Apparently he spent allot of time in his room alonen

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    My guess is the internet.

    Apparently he spent allot of time in his room alonen
    Yup, that is a common cause.

    Mommy and Daddy were either involved or stupidly clueless.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by HowardBThiname View Post
    I'm just questioning you on your own posts - that's hardly trolling or obsessive.

    But, Bravo! I'm glad to see that you're finally taking an interest in why different officers respond differently.
    You do realize your source doesn't support this right? It shows that across the board officers reacted similarly and policy seemed the same in the overwhelming majority of cases. That is what I have stated from the beginning and you claimed was wrong. There simply isn't a wide variation in policies and your own source confirms that by the tactics used/preferred by officers and their outcomes.

    Possible, yes, but let's examine what the reports says about officers that use force. Quotations from the report.

    That indicates that officers respond differently in different situations.
    Good grief, it's like you post just to waste bandwidth. Are ANY of the factors above applicable to the Tamir Rice incident? No? Then there is no reason to believe that the officers couldn't have reacted in the same way as the overwhelming majority of their colleagues. The rest of your post is meaningless drivel. What does that leave us with? The fact that this "many factors" argument to determine the outcome is simply nonsense.

    The options available to police are nearly identical as they concern use of tactics and escalations. That is what YOUR article shows. The resolution to these incidents is nearly indentical, once again ACROSS THE BOARD and in spite of "many factors". That demonstrates without a doubt that if we can have situations where cops can apprehend dangerous and armed suspects without violence, there is absolutely no reason for them to not be able to deal with 13 year olds and their toys. Are we done here? Or are you going to make another post where you simply go on and on without an actual point?
    Last edited by Hatuey; 06-18-15 at 05:00 PM.
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    Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    I'm not going to read most of the comments in detail but I cringe whenever mental illness is brought up. It tends to be associated with stereotypes of insanity and public danger.

    The usual replies: more beds, more restrictive environments, more punishment for being mentally ill.

    Yes, we need more beds. But guys, mental illness isn't a public enemy where anyone with it needs to be locked up and have the key thrown away.

    The destruction of the mental health system is the utter lack of respect for giving people treatment options and support, only giving them the options of being put into police custody or if you're lucky, in the hospital. People have wrongly believed that the destruction of the mental health care system came with deinstitutionalization. That's incredibly asinine.

    Realize that kids are having their families broken up to get treatment. Parents are often forced to give up custody of their kids just to get needed mental health treatments. We don't treat other health issues this way, but it's become government policy to break up families in return for healthcare. Service providers do not coordinate well with each other, making it impossible for people in emergency situations to get the help they need. There's no community services, nothing. Meanwhile the entire apparatus requires people to wait until **** hits the fan to get the help they need.

    We need a massive infrastructure development at the community level. People with mental illness are incredibly incredibly unlikely to be a public danger. They are, however, being seriously maligned by society who thinks it's appropriate to wait until Stage 4 to give anyone any help, and if they get help, we want them to stop being treated like American citizens.
    Last edited by Fiddytree; 06-18-15 at 04:51 PM.
    "We all of us know down here that politics is a tough game. And I don't think there's any point in being Irish if you don't know that the world is going to break your heart eventually."-Daniel Patrick Moynihan, December 5, 1963

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Yup, that is a common cause.

    Mommy and Daddy were either involved or stupidly clueless.
    It could be the former, but the latter is far more common in these stories. The Columbine shooters' parents come to mind.
    Horse sense is the thing a horse has which keeps it from betting on people. ~W.C. Fields

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by PoS View Post
    Funny how right wingers love to say Muslims are threats yet more people in America have been killed by right wing attacks than Muslim extremists since 9/11. Condolences to the victims.
    This was a right wing attack?

    Was Newt Gingrich driving the getaway car?

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by SMTA View Post
    Yup, that is a common cause.

    Mommy and Daddy were either involved or stupidly clueless.
    Sometimes it's hard to see these things man. My parents thought something was wrong with me because when some kids would go outside to play, I'd stay indoors with my sketchbooks. I'd say I hated the way the sun hit my cheeks, but they thought I was slightly antisocial. I just really enjoyed coloring and drawing. As I grew older, I figured out a way to balance it all and they toned down but it's not always that easy to notice. The kid may have been in his room playing video games or reading and they just thought he was the intellectual type or the geeky kid. So they might be a little clueless but sometimes it's just that people get the wrong idea.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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