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Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'll take that as an admission on your part that those in the gun control movement are going after all gun owners rather then restricting their efforts to keep guns out of the hands of criminals and lunatics.

You can 'take' it anyway you wish - don't mean you are correct
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Which of the multiple studies addresses the fact that despite having the toughest gun control laws in the country, Chicago is about the most violent city in the country. Which of the multiple studies addresses the fact that the cities with the least restrictions on firearm posession have the lowest amounts of crime?

Oh, I'm sorry. You must not have heard that those laws were stricken down by the Supreme Court a 'few' months past. I even remember certain websites claiming how crime was dropping last year because concealed carry was being allowed in Chicago - even though those articles were posted before the changes in the law went into effect -- Chicago Murder Rate drops when Concealed Carry becomes Legal

Chicago crime rate drops as concealed carry applications surge

Sept 2014 Crime Rates in Chicago Plummet After IL Implements Concealed Carry

and then there is reality CHICAGO SHOOTINGS UP 40 PERCENT IN FIRST QUARTER OF 2015, CPD SAYS
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Oh, I'm sorry. You must not have heard that those laws were stricken down by the Supreme Court a 'few' months past. I even remember certain websites claiming how crime was dropping last year because concealed carry was being allowed in Chicago - even though those articles were posted before the changes in the law went into effect -- Chicago Murder Rate drops when Concealed Carry becomes Legal

Chicago crime rate drops as concealed carry applications surge

Sept 2014 Crime Rates in Chicago Plummet After IL Implements Concealed Carry

and then there is reality CHICAGO SHOOTINGS UP 40 PERCENT IN FIRST QUARTER OF 2015, CPD SAYS

And how many of those shootings actually involved concealed carry holders? Because your article doesn't say.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

And how many of those shootings actually involved concealed carry holders? Because your article doesn't say.

What does the number of legal concealed carry people have to do with what I answered? I seem to remember a few words here and there about how more "legal" gun carriers would cause crime rates to drop. Are you saying that's not true.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Here is a source for the first one:

- Murder of two police officers by political activists last seen attending "Occupier" rallies and pissed because they could not afford health care.

BUSTED: Media Fails to Mention Vegas Shooters Involvement in "Occupy Movement" -
That's strange...first the blogger blames the media for not reporting that the Millers had attended an Occupy march in Louisiana and then posts a CBS Chicago article that does just that.

Finally, here's what the blogger says about the Millers.....

"After reviewing some videos by Jerad Miller, it is clear he could do something irrational. If so, the main-stream narrative that the Millers are fruitcakes associated with Tea Party and conspiracy theorists could actually be true."
MKUltra

Hmm, I wonder why he didn't link to the videos? Ntl, he now seems to think the Millers were just plain ol crazy tea partiers.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

No thanks, I got it right - you're basically trolling this thread with a bunch of unrelated games and smart ass comments that have nothing to do with the subject of the OP.

Nope. Read again.

Mass killings happen with great frequency in the U.S. As you can see, I mention it (without even overtly mentioning guns) and the usual suspects go ape**** because I've indirectly threatened their hobby.

What's a few dead people worth when you can stick freedom down your pants because you're afraid of strangers?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

However other countries lock up the drug addicts who commit violent crimes early in their careers and do not give them multiple second third and fourth chances before they do hard time. By the time violent offenders do any hard time in the US, they are hardened professional criminals.

Not really.

Let's see....is there some other unique characteristic that makes the U.S. have multiple mass shootings a year?

Hmm.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

However other countries lock up the drug addicts who commit violent crimes early in their careers and do not give them multiple second third and fourth chances before they do hard time. By the time violent offenders do any hard time in the US, they are hardened professional criminals.

Lol, this is pretty silly. The US has higher recidivism rates than nations with far more lenient penal systems. It is quite hard to do hard time in the Canadian justice system. Yet their recidivism rate is far bellow ours.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Please. We ALL make racist comments and jokes in private. It's ludicrous to pretend otherwise.


We do ??

Can you give me a example of a " racist comment " that me or one of my Conservative friends would make in private ?
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Had the vic been straight, it would not.


There are a lot of other reasons people kill people other than race and they are based on hatred. There's religion, different culture, wealthy lifestyle vs. their meager one.

You lose! :)
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

I'm white, have Conservative friends and I'm not sure what you mean by " Casual racism ".

Because I have yet to hear any of my Conservative friends mention anything that would qualify as being racist on a casual level.

Maybe you can help me out. Let me know what comments qualify as being causally racist.

We're right in the middle of talking about a situation where an open white supremacist walked into a black church screaming "I am here to kill black people" and murdered 9 people, and most the conservative pundits, posters and candidates went to great lengths either denying that it was racist or saying that there is no way to tell if that is racist. The reality is, conservatives in the US either can't or won't see racism no matter how blatant it is.

So, your conservative friends might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and you would still think you had never heard them say anything racist. Heck, given the display of conservative denial in the wake of this tragedy, it would seem plausible that even if your conservative friends were going around killing black people while screaming "I am killing you because I hate black people", as a conservative, you might still be convinced that you haven't seen any racism from your friends. You yourself might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and for whatever reason, be blocking it out as nearly all conservatives seem to do all the time. Heck, the KKK itself passionately contends that it isn't racist. They have some whole rationale worked out about how they define racism and what is truly in their hearts and all that and they seem to sincerely believe that they have been falsely accused of being racists....
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

There are a lot of other reasons people kill people other than race and they are based on hatred. There's religion, different culture, wealthy lifestyle vs. their meager one.

You lose! :)

Clearly you do not understand Federal Hate crimes statutes.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Because white on white is not a hate crime.

Actually, that is false. It isn't the race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc., of the attacker and victim that determine if it is a hate crime. What makes it a hate crime is if you pick the victim based on their race, gender, religion, etc. If a white person sets out to beat up a random white person because he hates white people, that is a hate crime. On the other hand, if a white person sets out to beat up a random person, and the first person he comes across is black, and he beats him up, that is not a hate crime.

There actually are quite a few cases of people being convicted of hate crimes against people on the basis of a demographic characteristic they share. Gay people who have complexes about their own sexuality that take that out on other gay people by beating them up for being gay, for example, are convicted of hate crimes.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Actually, that is false. It isn't the race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, etc., of the attacker and victim that determine if it is a hate crime. What makes it a hate crime is if you pick the victim based on their race, gender, religion, etc. If a white person sets out to beat up a random white person because he hates white people, that is a hate crime. On the other hand, if a white person sets out to beat up a random person, and the first person he comes across is black, and he beats him up, that is not a hate crime.

There actually are quite a few cases of people being convicted of hate crimes against people on the basis of a demographic characteristic they share. Gay people who have complexes about their own sexuality that take that out on other gay people by beating them up for being gay, for example, are convicted of hate crimes.
See my post above yours.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

We're right in the middle of talking about a situation where an open white supremacist walked into a black church screaming "I am here to kill black people" and murdered 9 people, and most the conservative pundits, posters and candidates went to great lengths either denying that it was racist or saying that there is no way to tell if that is racist. The reality is, conservatives in the US either can't or won't see racism no matter how blatant it is.

So, your conservative friends might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and you would still think you had never heard them say anything racist. Heck, given the display of conservative denial in the wake of this tragedy, it would seem plausible that even if your conservative friends were going around killing black people while screaming "I am killing you because I hate black people", as a conservative, you might still be convinced that you haven't seen any racism from your friends. You yourself might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and for whatever reason, be blocking it out as nearly all conservatives seem to do all the time. Heck, the KKK itself passionately contends that it isn't racist. They have some whole rationale worked out about how they define racism and what is truly in their hearts and all that and they seem to sincerely believe that they have been falsely accused of being racists....

Lol !

The KKK has historic Democrat roots and I'm no Democrat.

Maybe you people are looking for racism in the wrong party

If I were you I would defer to History.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

We're right in the middle of talking about a situation where an open white supremacist walked into a black church screaming "I am here to kill black people" and murdered 9 people, and most the conservative pundits, posters and candidates went to great lengths either denying that it was racist or saying that there is no way to tell if that is racist. The reality is, conservatives in the US either can't or won't see racism no matter how blatant it is.

So, your conservative friends might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and you would still think you had never heard them say anything racist. Heck, given the display of conservative denial in the wake of this tragedy, it would seem plausible that even if your conservative friends were going around killing black people while screaming "I am killing you because I hate black people", as a conservative, you might still be convinced that you haven't seen any racism from your friends. You yourself might be saying extremely racist stuff all the time and for whatever reason, be blocking it out as nearly all conservatives seem to do all the time. Heck, the KKK itself passionately contends that it isn't racist. They have some whole rationale worked out about how they define racism and what is truly in their hearts and all that and they seem to sincerely believe that they have been falsely accused of being racists....

Lol !

The KKK has historic Democrat roots and I'm no Democrat.

Maybe you people are looking for racism in the wrong party

If I were you I would defer to History.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You will never get them to admit that though. We have offered solutions such as enforcing the laws directing the law enforcement community and mental health counseling profession to report the mentally ill to the national background check database and fix the revolving door criminal justice system. All the gun haters can offer is: "Ban duh guns!".

all you have to do is cite the Hughes amendment for proof that gun control is about harassing gun owners, not stopping crime
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

You can 'take' it anyway you wish - don't mean you are correct

What is not in doubt is that you had no logical come back to the point that the gun control crowd is going after gun owners in general rather then focusing on the real causes of gun violence. It's a question of motives.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

See my post above yours.

The one where you said "Clearly you do not understand Federal Hate crimes statutes."?

If so, I certainly do understand how federal hate crime statutes work. I'm a lawyer. They work as I described.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

The one where you said "Clearly you do not understand Federal Hate crimes statutes."?

If so, I certainly do understand how federal hate crime statutes work. I'm a lawyer. They work as I described.

Then Mr Lawyer, LOL, post white on white hate crimes. Name a few. Based solely on skin color and or race.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Lol !

The KKK has historic Democrat roots and I'm no Democrat.

Maybe you people are looking for racism in the wrong party

If I were you I would defer to History.

If we were having this discussion 50 years ago, you would arguably have a point. Even 50 years ago, the point wouldn't be that clear. Dixiecrats were socially conservative/economically liberal. Over time, they switched to being economically conservative- prompted by resentment of welfare, which they saw as being about taking money from whites and giving it to blacks. So, when the Democrats joined with some Republicans to pass the Civil Rights Act, the Dixiecrats jumped ship and became Republicans en masse. Today, the folks who would have been Dixiecrats in those days are the tea party.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

Then Mr Lawyer, LOL, post white on white hate crimes. Name a few. Based solely on skin color and or race.

I don't know of an example of a white person committing a race-based hate crime against a white person. That just isn't something that really happens- a person hating their own race enough that they want to attack somebody based on being the same race as them is a pretty bizarre scenario. But, if it happened, it would be a hate crime.

What I said was that there are examples of people getting hate crime convictions for attacking somebody based on a shared characteristic. The cases that come to mind are gay people who have issues about their sexuality that attack other gay people for being gay as some kind of psycho way of grappling with their own issues. That's happened a lot of times. In fact, arguably most anti-gay hate crime involves a perpetrator who is gay. Straight people generally don't get that worked up about gay people's sex lives.
 
Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

all you have to do is cite the Hughes amendment for proof that gun control is about harassing gun owners, not stopping crime

BTW.... Thanks, Reagan!
 
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