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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

  1. #381
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Data on use of force has nothing to do with actual policies across different departments. If you're going to waste forum bandwidth, you should at least make an effort.

    Of course it does. That report detailed numerous differences between policies and individuals. Didn't I say conspiracy theorists don't accept facts?

    You keep beating around the bush, insinuating on numerous threads that something "sinister" is going on in these police departments. Cut to the chase, already - what is it? What do YOU think accounts for the differences in the selective cases you've chosen?
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You have now taken your SECOND giant step into irony in this discussion. You accused me of basing my argument on something I read in Wikipedia... only to now try and defend your argument using... Wikipedia.

    But it's funny to see you destroying your own argument here. My initial statement was that the shooter had a mental illness, you claimed he wasn't. I showed you that thoughts of homicidal ideation are classified under delirium in ICD-10. Now you have come back to prove me wrong by arguing that homicidal ideation is not mental illness, but rather a symptom of mental illness, meaning that those who present homicidal ideation are mentally ill, 89% of which are due to psychosis and the rest primarily substance induced mental illness.

    So again, as I said, seeing a group of people at a bible study and thinking they were a threat to you worthy of killing you have presented clear evidence of mental illness through the clear display of homicidal ideation.



    So what you are holding out for is some subset of the 11% that are not born of psychosis, and that vast majority of the cases that are clearly born of mental illness are just not good enough for you?

    He told the mostly female Bible study group that he was there to stop them from raping white women... are you ready to accept my diagnosis yet?
    At the risk of further inflaming you, I point you back to post #368.

  3. #383
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Actually violent crime has been trending downward overall for over 40 years. It's just the media hype that makes it seem worse than it is.
    i looked it up, and you are right. It is going down. Certainly doesn't seem it, but yes it is.

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  4. #384
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's not only a defense but shows that the laws take into account what people are thinking or what motivates their actions.

    So you feel that way about terrorism laws? We should wipe them off of the books as well?
    When it comes to mental illness and the law it doesn't really follow the same definitions. The Legal system doesn't really care if you were suffering from a mental illness as such. What the law cares about is whether your mental illness caused you to believe you were doing good when you murdered someone. If you know you are breaking the law when you commit murder then the law treats you as sane in the eyes of the law.

    In the case of Dylann Roof it will likely to be hard to plead mental illness in court even if it can be shown that he really was suffering from the delusion that all black people rape white women and deserve to die.. the reason is that after he murdered those innocent people he chose to run, clearly showing he knew what he did was against the law.
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Phys251 View Post
    At the risk of further inflaming you, I point you back to post #368.
    I am discussing mental illness as a clinical term, not a legal term. Radical Muslims are bat guano crazy too.

    And like anyone else who seeks to do violence I pray that they will one day find healing in the message of love and peace of Jesus Christ even though I know my own faults make me a hypocrite for wanting to fast track most of them on their appointment with the Almighty.
    Last edited by jmotivator; 06-18-15 at 03:41 PM.
    Give a man a fish and he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he stops voting for the Free Fish party.

  6. #386
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by iliveonramen View Post
    It's not only a defense but shows that the laws take into account what people are thinking or what motivates their actions.
    The former ones really are used only in defense. Hate crime tagging has the opposite effect - it enhances the punishment. The truth is - unless someone kills someone accidentally or they're on drugs or something, their intent is usually hateful. The jilted husband literally hates his wife's new boyfriend and that drives him to kill. That hatred has the same devastating effect - yet that man won't be charged with a hate crime. It's just silliness. Charges should be charges and, if there is some horrible intent, the jury should hear it in the courtroom.

    I have a feeling we'll regret this era in our judicial system because it's going to make some feel unfairly punished. Down the road, I think we'll look back and say - we should have treated everyone equally. A killer is a killer is a killer.


    So you feel that way about terrorism laws? We should wipe them off of the books as well?
    Well, first, I don't think they're any more effective than the death penalty is at reducing the risk of terror attacks. By and large, those willing to commit terrorist attacks are quite ready to pay the ultimate price. These are folks who seek attention for their horrific crimes and we've already given them a spiffy name - terrorists. Oooohhh, how scary. Just feeds into their power grab.

    Do you think labeling someone as a terrorist makes them less likely to commit harmful acts? Isn't it a bit on the sensationalist side? Look what it did for Dzhokhar Tsarnaev. Put his likeness smack dab on the cover of Rolling Stones, and made the little girls swoon. That was really effective, wasn't it?

    Bottom line - I don't think the scary labels work - and I think there's a good chance that they'll work against us.
    "Nothing can stop the man with the right mental attitude from achieving his goal; nothing on earth can help the man with the wrong mental attitude." ~ Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    I am discussing mental illness as a clinical term, not a legal term. Radical Muslims are bat guano crazy too.

    And like anyone else who seeks to do violence I pray that they will one day find healing in the message of love and peace of Jesus Christ even though I know my own faults make me a hypocrite for wanting to fast track most of them on their appointment with the Almighty.
    This response does not answer my questions.

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    Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Drugs were involved with the kid. He has apparently been known to take suboxone. Used to treat opiate addiction. Saw that on cnn. I will be looking up sideeffects when I get home.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Drugs were involved with the kid. He has apparently been known to take suboxone. Used to treat opiate addiction. Saw that on cnn. I will be looking up sideeffects when I get home.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by jmotivator View Post
    You have now taken your SECOND giant step into irony in this discussion. You accused me of basing my argument on something I read in Wikipedia... only to now try and defend your argument using... Wikipedia.
    I didn't accuse you of anything. I pointed out that you didn't bother to actually read your own source. Good grief, reading comprehension REALLY is hard for you.

    But it's funny to see you destroying your own argument here. My initial statement was that the shooter had a mental illness, you claimed he wasn't.
    Nope, I claimed there is no evidence to suggest he was mentally ill. There isn't. Reading comprehension. Use it.

    I showed you that thoughts of homicidal ideation are classified under delirium in ICD-10. Now you have come back to prove me wrong by arguing that homicidal ideation is not mental illness, but rather a symptom of mental illness,
    It's almost like you didn't read it: The source said MAY result from mental illness, not that it is specifically a symptom of it. Again, reading comprehension.

    meaning that those who present homicidal ideation are mentally ill, 89% of which are due to psychosis and the rest primarily substance induced mental illness.
    Lol, again reading comprehension, what the source is stating is that psychosis includes substance induced psychosis. Seriously, if you can't even read the basics of the very sources you're reading, why go into the more complex stuff that has commas?

    So again, as I said, seeing a group of people at a bible study and thinking they were a threat to you worthy of killing you have presented clear evidence of mental illness through the clear display of homicidal ideation.
    Still trying this silly argument? I'd give it up after failing so horribly to comprehend your own source.

    So what you are holding out for is some subset of the 11% that are not born of psychosis, and that vast majority of the cases that are clearly born of mental illness are just not good enough for you?
    Good grief, you do realize that the source states that 50 to 91% of the US population has had homicidal ideation? If your reading comprehension was anywhere near as good as you pretend it is, we'd then have to say that 45% to 81% of the US is mentally ill. However, the most liberal estimates put it somewhere at ~20% (or 1 in 5 Americans). Do you not see a contradiction within this? How only ~20% of the population can be mentally ill by the most liberal estimates but if your flawed attempt to play psychologist works, psychologists have been off by a a factor of 2 or 3 at best?

    That should give you a damn clue as to how silly your entire statement is. Homicidal ideation is the thought of wanting to kill somebody. It's not a mental illness, it can be a symptom of it, but not necessarily. However, even with that said, there is no evidence to suggest that this person was mentally ill. That remains true.

    He told the mostly female Bible study group that he was there to stop them from raping white women... are you ready to accept my diagnosis yet?
    He blamed all blacks for perceived crimes. Your diagnosis is WebMD nonsense.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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