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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

  1. #1131
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    "There you go again"...with yet another broad-brush attack of your own.

    You're assuming that we brand ALL gun owners with the same brush...when 32% of all Democrats ARE gun owners. As we have stated time and time AND TIME AGAIN, we aren't after the law-abiding gun owners - but we DO want to do what is necessary to keep the guns out of the hands of those who should not have them!
    .
    Certainly there are different levels of anti-gunners on the left. However the activists doing the most shouting have an ultimate goal of banning guns outright. They have merely abandoned the all or nothing approach and are instead attempting incremental measures. However the goal is the same

    It's the gun-rights lobby that is ensuring the ease of access to guns by sexual predators, ex-felons, sociopaths, terrorists, and the like.
    That is simply not true. The NRA for instance is simply for enforcing existing laws that in fact do help keep guns out of the hands of sexual predators, sociopaths, terrorists, and the like. The NRA also seeks tougher punishment for those criminals who break those laws. One example is the laws that require law enforcement and mental health professionals to report the names of the mentally ill to the national database used for instant background checks. If this law was enforced, several of the mass shooters would not have been able to buy guns legally.......as they in fact did. It is in fact the left wing trial attorney lobby that is ensuring easy access of guns to the felons and other groups that you mentioned. For instance there used to be a "Use a gun in the commission of a crime and go to prison" law. The leftwing trial attorney lobby and liberal judges somehow managed to do away with that law.


    The measures we want do NOT restrict the ability of law-abiding gun owners to own (almost) any gun they want or how many guns they want. The measures we want are for keeping them out the hands of those who should never have them to begin with.
    Obviously you are not representative of the majority of gun control advocates on the left. They go much further then you claim.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Glen Contrarian View Post
    You've no clue. By your logic, it's an unconstitutional gun ban to restrict the public from buying 20MM helicopter-capable chain guns.
    well if you had actually read about 400 posts of mine on the subject you would know that I think the issue involves individual arms and a 20MM chain gun is a crew served weapon. and btw there is actual constitutional support for arguing the federal government has no business restricting someone owning a chain gun as opposed to the silly comments that civilians ought to be limited to stuff of lesser grade than civilian police have

    magazine limits

    bans on select fire carbines

    waiting periods

    limits on how many guns you can buy in a month

    are all blatant violations of the clear meaning of the 2A because the 2A is a limitation on what the government can do that does not change on what civilians can buy today, or tomorrow or next year or in a decade
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    well if you had actually read about 400 posts of mine on the subject you would know that I think the issue involves individual arms and a 20MM chain gun is a crew served weapon. and btw there is actual constitutional support for arguing the federal government has no business restricting someone owning a chain gun as opposed to the silly comments that civilians ought to be limited to stuff of lesser grade than civilian police have

    magazine limits

    bans on select fire carbines

    waiting periods

    limits on how many guns you can buy in a month

    are all blatant violations of the clear meaning of the 2A because the 2A is a limitation on what the government can do that does not change on what civilians can buy today, or tomorrow or next year or in a decade
    Your opinion is unsupported by the documentation of the period when the Bill of Rights was ratified, although I'm sure you will have some guys who say otherwise.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    Your opinion is unsupported by the documentation of the period when the Bill of Rights was ratified, although I'm sure you will have some guys who say otherwise.
    ever read Sanford Levinson's "THE EMBARRASSING SECOND AMENDMENT"

    tell me what in the constitution actually was intended by the FOUNDERS to allow federal gun control powers.

    Can you find a single shred of documentation that supports federal gun control powers from that era

    don't bother looking it doesn't exist
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    ever read Sanford Levinson's "THE EMBARRASSING SECOND AMENDMENT"

    tell me what in the constitution actually was intended by the FOUNDERS to allow federal gun control powers.

    Can you find a single shred of documentation that supports federal gun control powers from that era

    don't bother looking it doesn't exist
    How can we compare the views of the Founding Fathers as neither Federalists or anti-Federalists believed the nation should support a "standing army" and inasmuch as the Founders lived in a very different world, it is difficult to state whether or not the Founders intended for Americans to have all the firearms they wish. We live in a very different world.

    Are you in favour of eliminating the Army and the Air Force? The Navy and Marines were seen as essential defence elements in the 18th C. but not an army.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    How can we compare the views of the Founding Fathers as neither Federalists or anti-Federalists believed the nation should support a "standing army" and inasmuch as the Founders lived in a very different world, it is difficult to state whether or not the Founders intended for Americans to have all the firearms they wish. We live in a very different world.

    Are you in favour of eliminating the Army and the Air Force? The Navy and Marines were seen as essential defence elements in the 18th C. but not an army.
    can you actually find a singe speech, letter, note or document from that time that even hints that the founders wanted the federal government to have a power over the private arms of private citizens and concurrent with the police powers of the "several states"? find me one. The last person I asked this to merely cited Article One Section 8 which was of course a complete failure
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    can you actually find a singe speech, letter, note or document from that time that even hints that the founders wanted the federal government to have a power over the private arms of private citizens and concurrent with the police powers of the "several states"? find me one. The last person I asked this to merely cited Article One Section 8 which was of course a complete failure
    John Adams, DEFENCE OF THE CONSTITUTIONS OF THE UNITED STATES
    To suppose arms in the hands of citizens, to be used at individual discretion, except in private self-defense, or by partial orders of towns, countries or districts of a state, is to demolish every constitution, and lay the laws prostrate, so that liberty can be enjoyed by no man; it is a dissolution of the government. The fundamental law of the militia is, that it be created, directed and commanded by the laws, and ever for the support of the laws.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    I'll ask again: Are you in favour of eliminating the Army and the Air Force? The Navy and Marines were seen as essential defence elements in the 18th C. but not an army. Standing armies were viewed as weapons used by governments/rulers to control their citizenry.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    uh that says nothing about the federal government having a power over what private citizens owning guns in their own private homes.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Somerville View Post
    I'll ask again: Are you in favour of eliminating the Army and the Air Force? The Navy and Marines were seen as essential defence elements in the 18th C. but not an army. Standing armies were viewed as weapons used by governments/rulers to control their citizenry.
    this is a thread about federal gun control being legitimate not other issues.
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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