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Thread: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224:1119]

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.
    So what I'm really reading here is that you have exactly 0 counter to what I said. So I will step down in the mud with you:

    100% of murders and attempted murders and thoughts and plans for attempted murders involved human beings.

    100% DID NOT involve guns.

    So no counter to everything else I said? Not willing to look beyond your narrow view on this topic? You aren't willing to even entertain the possibility that our nation has a pathological rage problem?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    It wasn't the CAUSE. It was the excuse. It was a symptom of underlying problems. Again. I will put it out there that this is NOT about protecting racists. This is about taking the time look at what causes someone to murder.

    And I think you touched on part of it with your talk about the online world. A place that lets those scumbags TO SAY EXACTLY what is on their mind, and find people who may justify it. They aren't out in the real world sharing these idiotic views with other humans who can say "hey there is something wrong with you." No...they think their own opinions are facts. They lose touch with reality.

    Can you actually deny that the underlying cause and that what REALLY drove him to murder was something fundamentally wrong with his mind. Not his point of view (which was ignorant and stupid).
    Sure, absolutely.

    However, thousands of kids just like Dylann are suffering from the same cocktail of psychological issues, drug use, outcast... That aren't committing mass killings, engaging with hate groups, etc. Most are consumed with other pathologies, obsessions, phobias equally severe and off base.

    The difference is, there are no groups seeking to take advantage of someone's irrational, drug distorted, OCD fear of spiders and triggering a murderous rampage... Unless it was against spiders, but who would notice?

    So as you said (or someone), lots of racists, rare mass killing. Lots of mentally ill, rare mass killings, same argument. (Acknowledging rare in context of our murderous society)

    Racial was the vehicle, the motivator, the driver, the trajectory and the morbidly curious spectators shouting and egging him on, waiting to see him, someone, anyone crash and burn.

    Yes, this kid had delusions of grandeur, he was going to be the flashpoint for a racial war. People were finally going to recognize his worth. Any of you ever been to a white pride forum? Every thread is peppered with calls for executions, war, culling, bounties, etc. they all talk and talk and talk and egg each other on, stirring up a frenzied circle jerk, day after day, year after year... And no one does anything... Except once in a while, one of them, riding the crest of psychopathy in an ocean of whack jobs, snaps.

    No... Because lots of folks are suffering the same disorders Dylann is and aren't given to violence or race fears, the defining cause IS the inciting of violence within a subculture that feeds off of sociopathy. The cause was racial hatred
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So what I'm really reading here is that you have exactly 0 counter to what I said. So I will step down in the mud with you:

    100% of murders and attempted murders and thoughts and plans for attempted murders involved human beings.

    100% DID NOT involve guns.

    So no counter to everything else I said? Not willing to look beyond your narrow view on this topic? You aren't willing to even entertain the possibility that our nation has a pathological rage problem?
    Of course we have a pathological rage problem.

    So does every nation in the world.

    Only in this country does that rage problem progress to regular, periodic mass murders.

    That's mostly thanks to our lax gun laws, compounded with a pathological gun culture.
    Many Trump supporters have lots of problems, and those deplorables are bringing those problems to us. They’re racists. They’re misogynists. They’re islamophobic. They're xenophobes and homophobes. And some, I assume, are good people.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    He didn't commit mass murder until he started looking into Trayvon Martin and violence against whites. There is nothing I have seen that suggests he suffered any type of mental trauma right around that time. So it was the same mind. People knew him in High School. He wasn't perceived as racist. He had black friends who didn't perceive him as racist. As best I can tell prior to finding racist propaganda online this kid was not racist. Nor had he committed mass murder.

    Propaganda is dangerous. Making people believe they are superior, that someone else is inferior, that X poses a threat to you or way of life ect. The propaganda is worded in such ways that people can be sucked into it. Especially when there is no alternative point of view. No real context. It is specifically worded to bring the reader or listener to the conclusion that is desired. As an example all of 1930's Germany was not suffering from mental illness. But they bought into this propaganda.

    Some people are very good at manipulation, and others are very gullible. That is what seems to have taken place here. People buy into this stuff for whatever reason. And they are going to choose to react to it in different ways. Just because they don't all commit mass murder, doesn't diminish the role racism played in this. It is the primary factor. This kid was fed a bunch of hate, and accepted it. Then he choose to act on it in this manner. There is nothing to suggest had he not been exposed to the level of racism he was, or if he hadn't bought into it, that he would have killed anyone else, because as I said before, he hadn't committed mass murder prior to that, or shown signs on wanting to that we know of.
    https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Ment...lth-Conditions

    One thing you need to consider is that these cases onset by 14, but not ALL. His age is important. This is not only when they are diagnosed but often when they develop. Why? The brain is still developing. And to go along with my theory about loss of social interaction...what broke a to a mind deprived of proper human interaction, when that kind is already developing incorrectly?

    You may not find a history of racism. Or mental illness. But you may find signs of aggression. Of psychological problems. Like trespassing? Doesn't he have a criminal record? And drug use? Again...Occam's razor.

    I'm not saying this kid wasn't racist. I'm not saying it didn't decide his targets. I'm saying that what this kid fits a specific mold, not perfectly, but a mold. And we as a society should just leave this too "blame guns and racism!" And that be it. That is a disservice to the victims. It leaves it at death and no attempt to gain anything from the ashes.

    And for your comment on the holocaust...that is an interesting point. And I think there are 2 factors. One is that those people were pushed into it via society. They were compelled to do it. Propaganda had to be constructed strictly for those men. And I wonder if the mindset was propelled further by men like this kid who were developing and learning murder? You are right and there is a great book on the topic: "ordinary men."

    But this kid wasn't a nazi in a society propelling him towards holocaust and racial superiority. He was NOT isolated from world views. He was isolated from "friends." How many people actually knew his racial motives? His internet history? How many challenged his views? He was in the prime age for these issues to develop, a drug user, and from what it sounds like...he was losing touch with reality.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    https://www.nami.org/Learn-More/Ment...lth-Conditions

    One thing you need to consider is that these cases onset by 14, but not ALL. His age is important. This is not only when they are diagnosed but often when they develop. Why? The brain is still developing. And to go along with my theory about loss of social interaction...what broke a to a mind deprived of proper human interaction, when that kind is already developing incorrectly?

    You may not find a history of racism. Or mental illness. But you may find signs of aggression. Of psychological problems. Like trespassing? Doesn't he have a criminal record? And drug use? Again...Occam's razor.

    I'm not saying this kid wasn't racist. I'm not saying it didn't decide his targets. I'm saying that what this kid fits a specific mold, not perfectly, but a mold. And we as a society should just leave this too "blame guns and racism!" And that be it. That is a disservice to the victims. It leaves it at death and no attempt to gain anything from the ashes.

    And for your comment on the holocaust...that is an interesting point. And I think there are 2 factors. One is that those people were pushed into it via society. They were compelled to do it. Propaganda had to be constructed strictly for those men. And I wonder if the mindset was propelled further by men like this kid who were developing and learning murder? You are right and there is a great book on the topic: "ordinary men."

    But this kid wasn't a nazi in a society propelling him towards holocaust and racial superiority. He was NOT isolated from world views. He was isolated from "friends." How many people actually knew his racial motives? His internet history? How many challenged his views? He was in the prime age for these issues to develop, a drug user, and from what it sounds like...he was losing touch with reality.
    He didn't just develop these views. He was taught these views. Not at a young age (best we can tell) but after becoming an adult. I don't think it is a coincidence that he started looking to murder when he started reading up on racist propaganda. I suppose there is a very very very slim chance that he happened to develop a disorder that made him suddenly prone to violence right when he started reading this crap, but more likely he read this crap and it grow hate. And hate for many turns to violence.

    Have you read his manifesto? Those aren't the words of a crazy person. Those are the words of someone who knew exactly what he was going to do, and why he was going to do it.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    sounds more and more like the confederate flag is coming down in South Carolina. Problem fixed, right? If only they had taken it down last week then none of this would have happened. Damn you Obama!

    anyways, smooth sailing from here on out. cheers

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    Let's not forget about easy availability of guns, and a gun culture that was comfortable with having a mentally ill, obviously hate filled racist bastard being armed. So comfortable, that his family actually bought him a gun.
    you keep complaining about guns and have no rational suggestions as to change this. and your slur against the gun culture is just that. and there are conflicting reports where the killer got the gun. several reports say he bought it shortly after he turned 21
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    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.
    duh, why clutter up the thread with this sort of nonsense? by definition a GUN SHOT would involves guns. So I ask-so what?
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by Threegoofs View Post
    100% of gunshot wounds involve guns.
    Brilliant deduction!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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    Re: Police: Multiple Victims in South Carolina church shooting [W:224]

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    No. That would be wrong. But how many warning signs do we know of for serial killers? Or arsonists? Now mass murderers? How can we even begin to deal with this if we don't look at it?

    For one...this asshole in SC can be evaluated. Any of them caught alive can. It can be court ordered. Additionally, any person who makes threats and is caught? Any computer records or diaries of the dead criminals as well. Not every American must Be studied. There are groups that can be isolated. We have already done this for some of the characteristics. Law enforcement profiled them a little. And most say the will commit the act, and most have a history of violence.
    Unfortunately, you are discussing an ex post facto (after the event) evaluation. Mental health specialists have warned us for years about signs indicating the potential for violence to be found in some individuals, unfortunately not every person who exhibits the signs goes on to commit violence against others. Who picks the ones who are to be refused a gun?
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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