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Thread: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I've seen no evidence that anyone has ever been expelled based solely on an accusation so your question is irrelevant to the issue being discussed.
    Just an idea, but maybe you could answer the question. And if it was more than an accusation, do please enlighten me of what you know for a fact this kid did wrong.
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is evidence of sexual misconduct. The texts you refer to suggest it may not have been rape, but that doesn't mean the accussed did not engage in sexual misconduct. Also, the texts do not show the exact opposite and they weren't provided to the college before the student was expelled
    Where's the evidence then? The woman's say so? Because that is the only "evidence" that we've seen to date. In fact it is the only "evidence" that is possible since everyone is agreed (including the accuser) the whole encounter started out as consensual.

    And the reason that the texts weren't provided to the college is because they didn't fully investigate. (which is why it should have been left up to the cops)
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    Just an idea, but maybe you could answer the question.
    I'm not going to answer that question because it has nothing to do with this thread

    And if it was more than an accusation, do please enlighten me of what you know for a fact this kid did wrong.
    I did not say that the expelled student did anything wrong.
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Where's the evidence then? The woman's say so? Because that is the only "evidence" that we've seen to date. In fact it is the only "evidence" that is possible since everyone is agreed (including the accuser) the whole encounter started out as consensual.

    And the reason that the texts weren't provided to the college is because they didn't fully investigate. (which is why it should have been left up to the cops)
    There was more evidence, some of which is detailed in the article I linked to. I'm not going to read it to you. AFAIK, there was nothing preventing the accused from providing those texts to the school. The failure to do so was his.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I'm not going to answer that question because it has nothing to do with this thread



    I did not say that the expelled student did anything wrong.
    So he didn't do anything wrong. But you still support his expulsion based on the accusation?
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There was more evidence, some of which is detailed in the article I linked to. I'm not going to read it to you. AFAIK, there was nothing preventing the accused from providing those texts to the school. The failure to do so was his.
    He didn't obtain them until after he was kicked out for no reason. And after obtaining them, and providing them to the school, it didn't matter any.
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    So he didn't do anything wrong. But you still support his expulsion based on the accusation?
    I didn't say that he didn't do anything wrong either. Nor did I say that I support his expulsion.

    Try to address something I've actually said.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    He didn't obtain them until after he was kicked out for no reason. And after obtaining them, and providing them to the school, it didn't matter any.
    According to Amherst, he wasn't expelled "for no reason".
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    AFAIK, there is no claim of discrimination. It's about due process.

    And while it may not have been rape, that doesn't mean the accused did nothing wrong.
    Yea there is. From the article you posted, that you are telling others to read;


    What’s more, the lawsuit also asserts that the action taken against John Doe, who is Asian-American, is part of a pattern since 2013 in which the college has sanctioned only “male students of color’’ for sexual misconduct
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I didn't say that he didn't do anything wrong either. Nor did I say that I support his expulsion.

    Try to address something I've actually said.



    According to Amherst, he wasn't expelled "for no reason".
    Yes you have. Go read your posts on pages 4-6
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There was more evidence, some of which is detailed in the article I linked to. I'm not going to read it to you. AFAIK, there was nothing preventing the accused from providing those texts to the school. The failure to do so was his.
    Well, I just read your article, again and the closest I could find about any type of "evidence" that the guy committed sexual misconduct was this....

    The disputed sexual encounter began late on a Friday night, when Jones, the accuser, and Doe were sophomores. He had been dating her roommate, who was out of town, for a month.

    According to accounts by the accuser and witnesses given to Allyson Kurker, the outside investigator brought in by Amherst, Doe arrived in a fourth-floor dormitory lounge where several friends had gathered. He was very drunk. She was tipsy.

    Within minutes, they were “making out’’ in front of the others, and then left and went to her dorm room.

    In her initial written complaint, Jones said that in the dorm room, the entire encounter was forcible. But in her interview with Kurker and during the hearing, she said the oral sex was initially consensual; then, after Doe boasted about “hooking up” with both her and her roommate, she told him to stop. He refused to do so, she said, according to the hearing transcript.

    In his defense, Doe said he was not the kind of person who would do such a thing. But he told the disciplinary board he was so drunk that night he had no memory of the encounter.

    During the 2013 hearing, Jones’s roommate testified that she had learned Jones had exchanged text messages with a resident dorm counselor just after the alleged rape. But the school made no effort to contact the counselor or obtain the texts, according to the hearing record.

    When a hearing officer asked Jones about those texts, she replied: “I didn’t want to address what had happened to me and I was in no position yet to accept that it had been rape. So in my text messaging [to counselor] I only said things about the hook-up as if it had been consensual.”
    No other evidence what so ever. The only "evidence" that I see is that she accused him of rape and that's it.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

    My mind and my heart are saying I'm in my twenties. My body is pointing at my mind and heart and laughing its ass off. ~ Kal'Stang

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