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Thread: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

  1. #11
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    Oh, almost forgot....if you're sending your son to college don't bother getting him a box of rubbers. Get him an attorney.
    Or, you know, raise him right, teach him how consent works, be responsible with alcohol, and be careful who he goes home with.

    Look, there is no easy answer to dealing with alleged rape cases. The overwhelming majority of rapes are committed by someone the victim knows. So inevitably, unless the rape was video taped or done in front of witnesses, it is going to be a case of he said, she said. Because of that most rape cases don't even go to court, let alone end in conviction.

    I certainly don't want to abandon our "guilty beyond all reasonable doubt" standard but one of the consequences of that is most rapists will remain free. And yes, sometimes a woman will falsely accuse a man of rape. But the crime of false accusation also cannot easily be proven beyond all reasonable doubt because, once again, it is usually a he said she said case.

    In the end, you will usually end up with a rape victim who feels she never received justice and is forced to keep attending the same school as her rapist unless she drops out or you end up with man who was falsely accused and his life is likely ruined to some degree.

    Both scenarios suck. There isn't an easy solution to it. But I really am not comfortable with universities being the ones to handle these investigations.

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    College campuses aren't foreign countries or reservations. Its the police department's job to investigate any accusations of a crime, not college administrators, regardless of the crime.

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by BrewerBob View Post
    Or, you know, raise him right, teach him how consent works, be responsible with alcohol, and be careful who he goes home with.
    Raise him to believe unless you have a signed, notarized affidavit, anything you do can come back to bite you?

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say | Fox News

    So this is where we are now with college rape cases? WTF?
    Oh yes! This is where we are at! Without actually knowing all the details of the cases presented, we just go off the words of those of the accused, "im innocent" (which just about every person accused of a crime ususally says...), but lets look beyond this article.
    " Only between 8 percent and 37 percent of rapes ever lead to prosecution, according to research funded by the Department of Justice, and just 3 percent to 18 percent of sexual assaults lead to a conviction." Prosecutors Rarely Bring Charges In College Rape Cases

    "The survey of six schools in Illinois and Indiana found that police investigated 171 reported sex crimes since fall 2005, with 12 resulting in arrests and four in convictions. Only one of the convictions stemmed from a student-on-student attack, the most common type of assault... The rate of arrests and convictions is far below the average for rapes reported nationally... An estimated 95 percent of college students who are victimized do not report sexual-related crimes to law enforcement, according to a study funded by the Justice Department." Campus sex assaults: - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh yes! This is where we are at! Without actually knowing all the details of the cases presented, we just go off the words of those of the accused, "im innocent" (which just about every person accused of a crime ususally says...), but lets look beyond this article.
    " Only between 8 percent and 37 percent of rapes ever lead to prosecution, according to research funded by the Department of Justice, and just 3 percent to 18 percent of sexual assaults lead to a conviction." Prosecutors Rarely Bring Charges In College Rape Cases

    "The survey of six schools in Illinois and Indiana found that police investigated 171 reported sex crimes since fall 2005, with 12 resulting in arrests and four in convictions. Only one of the convictions stemmed from a student-on-student attack, the most common type of assault... The rate of arrests and convictions is far below the average for rapes reported nationally... An estimated 95 percent of college students who are victimized do not report sexual-related crimes to law enforcement, according to a study funded by the Justice Department." Campus sex assaults: - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
    You here to make a point? Well make it. Some of these cases have already proven the male student innocence. You just want someone to go to jail to satisfy your attitude over other poorly prosecuted cases?
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh yes! This is where we are at! Without actually knowing all the details of the cases presented, we just go off the words of those of the accused, "im innocent" (which just about every person accused of a crime ususally says...), but lets look beyond this article.
    " Only between 8 percent and 37 percent of rapes ever lead to prosecution, according to research funded by the Department of Justice, and just 3 percent to 18 percent of sexual assaults lead to a conviction." Prosecutors Rarely Bring Charges In College Rape Cases

    "The survey of six schools in Illinois and Indiana found that police investigated 171 reported sex crimes since fall 2005, with 12 resulting in arrests and four in convictions. Only one of the convictions stemmed from a student-on-student attack, the most common type of assault... The rate of arrests and convictions is far below the average for rapes reported nationally... An estimated 95 percent of college students who are victimized do not report sexual-related crimes to law enforcement, according to a study funded by the Justice Department." Campus sex assaults: - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
    So you support this guy getting expelled?
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Oh yes! This is where we are at! Without actually knowing all the details of the cases presented, we just go off the words of those of the accused, "im innocent" (which just about every person accused of a crime ususally says...), but lets look beyond this article.
    " Only between 8 percent and 37 percent of rapes ever lead to prosecution, according to research funded by the Department of Justice, and just 3 percent to 18 percent of sexual assaults lead to a conviction." Prosecutors Rarely Bring Charges In College Rape Cases

    "The survey of six schools in Illinois and Indiana found that police investigated 171 reported sex crimes since fall 2005, with 12 resulting in arrests and four in convictions. Only one of the convictions stemmed from a student-on-student attack, the most common type of assault... The rate of arrests and convictions is far below the average for rapes reported nationally... An estimated 95 percent of college students who are victimized do not report sexual-related crimes to law enforcement, according to a study funded by the Justice Department." Campus sex assaults: - tribunedigital-chicagotribune
    Looks like the majority of reported rapes in college don't have enough evidence to support convictions, let alone indictment.

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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say | Fox News

    So this is where we are now with college rape cases? WTF?
    Now? It's been like this for awhile.
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Campus rapes should be investigated and adjudicated by the local law enforcement authorities, not campus police and administrators who have a conflict of interest, do not have access to all of the investigative tools or the mechanisms for a fair trial. Apparently that does not usually happen because the local police don't like getting involved, but it shouldn't be up to them, they are obligated to enforce the law. Students should only be expelled upon a real legal conviction, although I think suspensions for bad behavior that is not criminal are fine.
    Well said!!

    By the way, if there is over-enforcement of rape accusations now, it is because for many years there were many incidents of under-enforcement and cover-ups in the past.
    The problem with this is that for lot of people, it's a justification for the wrongful acts being done now. The solution isn't to swing the pendulum of injustice the other way, it's to stop it swinging altogether.
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by Hard Truth View Post
    Campus rapes should be investigated and adjudicated by the local law enforcement authorities, not campus police and administrators who have a conflict of interest, do not have access to all of the investigative tools or the mechanisms for a fair trial. Apparently that does not usually happen because the local police don't like getting involved, but it shouldn't be up to them, they are obligated to enforce the law. Students should only be expelled upon a real legal conviction, although I think suspensions for bad behavior that is not criminal are fine.

    By the way, if there is over-enforcement of rape accusations now, it is because for many years there were many incidents of under-enforcement and cover-ups in the past.
    This is most likely true. Doesn't justify swinging too far the other way, though.
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