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Thread: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

  1. #121
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Let me ask you one VERY simple question: how would you feel if you were accused of rape and didn't do it? And specifically accused for a point in time when you were drunk?

    Would your defense be...oh well I'm expelled I can't prove my innocence? Never mind that your guilt can't be ascertained by the university. Would you be so quick to concede that YOUR are a rapist?

    Now. Let's look at this more. They couldn't convict him of rape. They EXPELLED him for it. They don't know he raped anyone. They don't have evidence. And now EVERYONE that knows this kid or has any information about his assumes he is a rapist. It doesn't matter if they didn't release his name. You think we can't find out?

    He has to explain for the REST of his LIFE why he was expelled. And he was NEVER sentenced or found guilty. The only reason? Some girl THINKS he raped her. You are calling that justice? Acceptable?

    Let's not forget that by ALLOWING this...you just set a precedent for ANY school to expel ANYONE who is arrested for ANY reason regardless of any conviction. You call that freedom? Would you support a company firing an employee who is arrested?

    And it doesn't matter that this school is private. The kid was not found guilty. In the eyes of the law he is innocent. He was expelled for nothing.
    You don't understand. Right or wrong is irrelevant. It's all about the profit motive.
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  2. #122
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You don't understand. Right or wrong is irrelevant. It's all about the profit motive.
    I guess so. Certainly not justice and being for someone's civil rights.
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  3. #123
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Would you support a company firing an employee who is arrested?
    Since it's easier to respond to everything you said by simply answering this one question:

    Yes, I would.

    It's a private business.

    It exists for one reason: to turn a profit for its stakeholders.

    If the leadership of the business feels that an employee's arrest jeopardizes profit maximization then I support the business' right to fire that employee.

    No, I don't care that the employee has to go through the rest of his life explaining why he lost that job or any subsequent hole in his resume.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  4. #124
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Since it's easier to respond to everything you said by simply answering this one question:

    Yes, I would.

    It's a private business.

    It exists for one reason: to turn a profit for its stakeholders.

    If the leadership of the business feels that an employee's arrest jeopardizes profit maximization then I support the business' right to fire that employee.

    No, I don't care that the employee has to go through the rest of his life explaining why he lost that job or any subsequent hole in his resume.
    You would if it were you or somebody you cared about.

    Is that hypocritical?
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020
    Then: "Any child can grow up to be President."
    Now: "Any child can be President."

  5. #125
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    You would if it were you or somebody you cared about.

    Is that hypocritical?
    I don't really think so.

    Granted I'm being a bit hyperbolic but still.

    I would "care" if my brother were a drunken bum eating out of a garbage can on skid row, but I don't think we, as a nation, should be providing every drunken bum with 40 acres and a mule and arranging for every other material comfort they could possibly want.

    I would "care" if my kid wasn't able to win an analyst internship at Goldman Sachs, but I don't think that Goldman should have to provide everyone who wants one with an internship.

    Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. Getting so drunk that you black out and can't even remember whether or not you raped a girl is just...stupid.

    Something tells me that this isn't the last hardship this kid is going to face in life as a consequence of his own poor decision making.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

  6. #126
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I don't really think so.

    Granted I'm being a bit hyperbolic but still.

    I would "care" if my brother were a drunken bum eating out of a garbage can on skid row, but I don't think we, as a nation, should be providing every drunken bum with 40 acres and a mule and arranging for every other material comfort they could possibly want.

    I would "care" if my kid wasn't able to win an analyst internship at Goldman Sachs, but I don't think that Goldman should have to provide everyone who wants one with an internship.

    Life is hard. It's harder if you're stupid. Getting so drunk that you black out and can't even remember whether or not you raped a girl is just...stupid.

    Something tells me that this isn't the last hardship this kid is going to face in life as a consequence of his own poor decision making.
    Why does it have to be one extreme or the other? No one that I am aware of is advocating mindlessly providing people with anything and everything "just because". We're just saying that penalties should be based on REAL instances of misdoing.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020
    Then: "Any child can grow up to be President."
    Now: "Any child can be President."

  7. #127
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    So is her word more trustworthy than his?
    *yawn*

    Once again I'll repeat the fact that the decision is supposed to be based on the preponderance of the facts - *ALL* of the facts, and not the handful that one side or the other prefers
    Last edited by sangha; 06-18-15 at 05:40 PM.
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    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  8. #128
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by radcen View Post
    Which one seems more credible? By the other evidence gathered, and when all taken together, it would seem the one where she admitted it was consensual.
    The response to that is "None of us really know because none of know exactly what all the evidence is"

    What we know is what the accused claims in his lawsuit, what the accuser has said in public, and the minimal statements by the college itself. That may be all of it, or maybe not. Neither I, nor you, nor anyone else outside of the parties directly involved know so it's impossible for any of us to say if the schools decision was reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    Justice Thomas' opinions consistently contain precise, detailed constitutional analyses.
    Quote Originally Posted by jaeger19 View Post
    the vast majority of folks that need healthcare are on Medicare.. both rich and poor..

  9. #129
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    The response to that is "None of us really know because none of know exactly what all the evidence is"

    What we know is what the accused claims in his lawsuit, what the accuser has said in public, and the minimal statements by the college itself. That may be all of it, or maybe not. Neither I, nor you, nor anyone else outside of the parties directly involved know so it's impossible for any of us to say if the schools decision was reasonable.
    It stands to reason that each side would put forth their best case if airing in public. Hence, it's not unreasonable to believe that we have enough evidence to make a reasonable conclusion.
    Huntsman / Kasich 2020
    Then: "Any child can grow up to be President."
    Now: "Any child can be President."

  10. #130
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    Re: 'Accused is guilty': Campus rape tribunals punish without proof, critics say

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    There is other evidence (ex he admits to having sex and being drunk)
    Neither of which is evidence of sexual misconduct.
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