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121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

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This monstrous story buried by the networks. Instead they focus on TWO escaped convicts in new york.


121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration - Washington Times

june 15 2015
More than 100 immigrants whom the Obama administration released back into the community went on to be charged with subsequent killings, according to government data released Monday that raises more questions about whether immigration authorities are doing enough to detail illegal immigrants awaiting deportation.

ICE officials say they don’t regularly notify local authorities when they release an immigrant and don’t have a way of finding out from those authorities whether a former detainee gets into trouble with the law,
 
The Washington Times is a right-wing propaganda sheet.

I won't be wasting any time there.




"The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen."
~ Tommy Smothers
 
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Agreed, it would be nice to have a secondary source on this one so we have more to discuss. Assuming for a moment that the article is entirely accurate, then we have a legitimate problem when it comes to enforcement of existing laws. Which begs the question on more laws being the answer if we do not bother with current enforcement.
 
Agreed, it would be nice to have a secondary source on this one so we have more to discuss. Assuming for a moment that the article is entirely accurate, then we have a legitimate problem when it comes to enforcement of existing laws. Which begs the question on more laws being the answer if we do not bother with current enforcement.

Even if entirely true it doesn't really tell us all that much. Let's say that juvenile offenders released when they turn 18 turn out to have committed 1,000 murders. What is our response to that? Keep millions of juvenile offenders in jail? What were they charged with? If that's 0.5% of total juveniles released, should we detain for life the other 99.5%? Etc.

If Obama released violent offenders and .1% or .001% or 40% ended up being murderers, those differences matter a great deal. If some non-trivial percentage turn out to become murderers, and some notion of justice is consistent with these people never released or held until deported, that's fine. If they were non-violent people whose only crime was crossing illegally, should we hold everyone detained forever or until deported? Do we have room to do that? Can the system process that many people?

I won't click on the story because the Moonie Times crashes my old computer, but I doubt if they provide any useful context. Typically these are just bash immigrant pieces.
 
No they aren't. They are bash ILLEGAL ALIEN pieces.

OK, fine. The rest of my comments still stand.

Can you tell me how many people here on legal work permits or otherwise legal immigrants have committed violent crimes or murders or killed someone drunk driving? Can you compare that to native born in the same age groups?

What share of those ILLEGALS released have committed crimes, including murder?

Etc.

Bottom line is we have millions of people here illegally - about 12 million or so. It would be shocking if NONE of those here illegally, or those hundreds of thousands at least going through the system didn't commit crimes, including occasionally murder. Take any population and you'll find some small percentage of criminals. The data show that immigrants (legal and illegal) are less likely to commit crimes than the native born. What does any of that mean? It requires context and I'd be shocked if the Moonie Times did anything but quote some figures out of all context.
 
OK, fine. The rest of my comments still stand.

Can you tell me how many people here on legal work permits or otherwise legal immigrants have committed violent crimes or murders or killed someone drunk driving? Can you compare that to native born in the same age groups?

What share of those ILLEGALS released have committed crimes, including murder?

Etc.

Bottom line is we have millions of people here illegally - about 12 million or so. It would be shocking if NONE of those here illegally, or those hundreds of thousands at least going through the system didn't commit crimes, including occasionally murder. Take any population and you'll find some small percentage of criminals. The data show that immigrants (legal and illegal) are less likely to commit crimes than the native born. What does any of that mean? It requires context and I'd be shocked if the Moonie Times did anything but quote some figures out of all context.

NONE of that matters. Those here legally on visa are deported for such behavior. Those who immigrated legally are citizens and dealt with as citizens. The illegal population is not supposed to be here in the first place. Any crimes they commit are entirely due to our failure to defend our borders and our laws.
 
NONE of that matters. Those here legally on visa are deported for such behavior. Those who immigrated legally are citizens and dealt with as citizens. The illegal population is not supposed to be here in the first place. Any crimes they commit are entirely due to our failure to defend our borders and our laws.

OK, got it. I guess we need the equivalent of the Berlin Wall for the entire southern and northern border, and a few hundred more prisons to hold everyone rounded up and detained on suspicion of being illegal, and Kangaroo courts with 2 minutes per charged person, and then a bus waiting after the "ILLEGAL" finding, so we can get those crimes down to zero. Land of the free!
 
OK, got it. I guess we need the equivalent of the Berlin Wall for the entire southern and northern border, and a few hundred more prisons to hold everyone rounded up and detained on suspicion of being illegal, and Kangaroo courts with 2 minutes per charged person, and then a bus waiting after the "ILLEGAL" finding, so we can get those crimes down to zero. Land of the free!

Yeah, because hyperbole and exaggeration is always the answer when one's argument is shown to be specious.
 
No they aren't. They are bash ILLEGAL ALIEN pieces.

Actually this is a "bash the policy" piece, since these released aliens were already criminals when we decided to release them anyway.


The Administration has also freed hundreds of sex criminals back into our neighborhoods.
 
Yeah, because hyperbole and exaggeration is always the answer when one's argument is shown to be specious.



I don't believe that it's hyperbole or exaggeration to say that the USA can't arrest and lock up12 million illegal immigrants at one time, so another solution will have to be found.

You you have an answer?
 
Actually this is a "bash the policy" piece, since these released aliens were already criminals when we decided to release them anyway.


The Administration has also freed hundreds of sex criminals back into our neighborhoods.


Well Obama is nothing if not an equal opportunity enabler .... if he lets murderers go shouldn't he also be letting the sex criminals go? I mean, he can't be seen as discriminatory against rapists and sexual deviants. On a more serious note, this is a policy issue - an insane discussion about why our President has enabled murderers loose to murder yet more people. I'm tempted to start down the hyperbole trail saying this blood is on Obama's hands, but he'd simply shrug it off and call it a "prisoner catch and release get out the vote plan".
 
Yeah, because hyperbole and exaggeration is always the answer when one's argument is shown to be specious.

If you don't want to use any context in evaluating these things, then what do you expect?
 
Well Obama is nothing if not an equal opportunity enabler .... if he lets murderers go shouldn't he also be letting the sex criminals go? I mean, he can't be seen as discriminatory against rapists and sexual deviants. On a more serious note, this is a policy issue - an insane discussion about why our President has enabled murderers loose to murder yet more people. I'm tempted to start down the hyperbole trail saying this blood is on Obama's hands, but he'd simply shrug it off and call it a "prisoner catch and release get out the vote plan".

Sheesh, he's not letting "murderers" go. Against my better judgment, I clicked on the Moonie Times link (just five pop up ads I had to close...). Known violent offenders aren't released, but the story identifies ONE person with a history of violent crime who slipped through, and he did later commit murder. The rest as far as I can tell were ordinary detainees whose cases were working their way through the system who were released under the equivalent of bail, and who later committed murder.
 
OK, got it. I guess we need the equivalent of the Berlin Wall for the entire southern and northern border, and a few hundred more prisons to hold everyone rounded up and detained on suspicion of being illegal, and Kangaroo courts with 2 minutes per charged person, and then a bus waiting after the "ILLEGAL" finding, so we can get those crimes down to zero. Land of the free!

Wait until the ISIS kids arrive via the unguarded border. OK, I know that is just another right wing theory used to put down da prezz..
 
Sheesh, he's not letting "murderers" go. Against my better judgment, I clicked on the Moonie Times link (just five pop up ads I had to close...). Known violent offenders aren't released, but the story identifies ONE person with a history of violent crime who slipped through, and he did later commit murder. The rest as far as I can tell were ordinary detainees whose cases were working their way through the system who were released under the equivalent of bail, and who later committed murder.

I'm pretty sure there's more than one.... and this is from 2009.

Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue | Center for Immigration Studies

Now, I know you'll bring a few of the links that make claims like, when immigrants move in, crime drops or that illegal immigrations reduces the amount of crime in cities and neighborhoods. I would just want to point out proactively, that drinking bleach is not good for the bowels, jumping off a bridge doesn't demonstrate humans can fly like birds, and stepping in dog **** doesn't smell like a bed of roses. The fact is, I'd much rather immigration take the legal route than the illegal one. I'd be interested to see how many of these 121 illegals charged with homicides were previously jailed in the US, or previously deported.
 
Actually this is a "bash the policy" piece, since these released aliens were already criminals when we decided to release them anyway.

What crimes were they accused of?

The Administration has also freed hundreds of sex criminals back into our neighborhoods.

From the story:

These released criminals are immigrants who were convicted of sex-related crimes and ordered deported, sometimes after serving a state or federal prison term. But if their home country will not take them back, ICE says they must release them after six months because the Supreme Court in 2001 barred the agency from holding immigrants indefinitely.

So, just a minor problem called the Supreme Court of the United States prevents them from being held indefinitely.
 
Wait until the ISIS kids arrive via the unguarded border. OK, I know that is just another right wing theory used to put down da prezz..

Well, OK so you do want a Berlin Wall. Great. And we'll have to search all truck traffic and the trunks of all cars and ships and boats, etc. Sounds doable to me, and then we can get illegal immigration to zero and ISIS isn't a threat.
 
I'm pretty sure there's more than one.... and this is from 2009.

Immigration and Crime: Assessing a Conflicted Issue | Center for Immigration Studies

Now, I know you'll bring a few of the links that make claims like, when immigrants move in, crime drops or that illegal immigrations reduces the amount of crime in cities and neighborhoods. I would just want to point out proactively, that drinking bleach is not good for the bowels, jumping off a bridge doesn't demonstrate humans can fly like birds, and stepping in dog **** doesn't smell like a bed of roses. The fact is, I'd much rather immigration take the legal route than the illegal one. I'd be interested to see how many of these 121 illegals charged with homicides were previously jailed in the US, or previously deported.

Sure there are probably many. We process 100s of thousands a year through the system. It would be remarkable if there weren't tons of mistakes in a process that moves that many people through the system, with 100s of thousand more in various stages in the process. I'm not sure what the point is, though.
 
OK, fine. The rest of my comments still stand.

Can you tell me how many people here on legal work permits or otherwise legal immigrants have committed violent crimes or murders or killed someone drunk driving? Can you compare that to native born in the same age groups?

What share of those ILLEGALS released have committed crimes, including murder?

Etc.

Bottom line is we have millions of people here illegally - about 12 million or so. It would be shocking if NONE of those here illegally, or those hundreds of thousands at least going through the system didn't commit crimes, including occasionally murder. Take any population and you'll find some small percentage of criminals. The data show that immigrants (legal and illegal) are less likely to commit crimes than the native born. What does any of that mean? It requires context and I'd be shocked if the Moonie Times did anything but quote some figures out of all context.

That's not the point... We had criminals in our custody who should have never been released back into our society (jail time and then deportation or just deportation) who went out and killed people. They should have never had the chance to commit these crimes had our laws been applied as they should be applied. This is about a failure of our justice system to do what it's supposed to do and work to protect the residents of this nation from criminals.
 
Sure there are probably many. We process 100s of thousands a year through the system. It would be remarkable if there weren't tons of mistakes in a process that moves that many people through the system, with 100s of thousand more in various stages in the process. I'm not sure what the point is, though.

Well you agreed with the point I made - that there's more than one. The other point I'm making is it's illegal to be in this country ... well... illegally. Why our Federal Government decides to release felons from jail.... seems silly.

Report: U.S. released thousands of immigrant felons last year - CBS News
 
That's not the point... We had criminals in our custody who should have never been released back into our society (jail time and then deportation or just deportation) who went out and killed people. They should have never had the chance to commit these crimes had our laws been applied as they should be applied. This is about a failure of our justice system to do what it's supposed to do and work to protect the residents of this nation from criminals.

If you read the story, in fact almost all of them were released directly consistent with our laws. Many were released because of the SC ruling in 2001, and the rest were released because we don't have the facilities to hold them all in detention for the time it takes for the cases to legally work through the process. The story pointed out ONE person who clearly was a bad mistake.

And the bottom line is our justice system releases criminals into the streets every hour of every day - thousands of them, out on bail, parole, who go on to commit horrible crimes. It's a risk we know about and we accept because the alternatives are worse. If there is a better alternative for non-violent illegals, then someone should suggest it. Berlin Wall to cut off illegal immigration, a few hundred more prisons, overruling the SC? Not sure what it would take to take the risk of released illegals to zero.
 
What crimes were they accused of?

Not accused - convicted. These were convicted criminals that the administration decided to release anyway.

From the story:

So, just a minor problem called the Supreme Court of the United States prevents them from being held indefinitely.

:doh fail. So ICE is incapable of, oh, say, I don't know, handing them back over to the Justice System?
 
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