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Thread: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Trump said they don't send their best. But everyone freaked out and called him a bigot.
    I'm not sure he's a bigot, but he is an idiot. When has the U.S. ever got the "best" from another country. If they were doing great in their homeland, why would our ancestors have abandoned it all and came here? We've always welcomed people who had no opportunity in their home country and came here. The only difference is most of our ancestors were poor and white and the one's Trump's complaining about are Hispanic.

    If you were in Mexico and poor and had a family, what would you do? Stay there where you know there is little hope for a better future, or walk over and take one of the millions of jobs that WELCOME undocumented labor, and give your family a shot at a better life? It's either stupid or bigoted to insult those people who I HOPE I'd emulate if I was in their shoes.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I'm not sure he's a bigot, but he is an idiot. When has the U.S. ever got the "best" from another country. If they were doing great in their homeland, why would our ancestors have abandoned it all and came here? We've always welcomed people who had no opportunity in their home country and came here. The only difference is most of our ancestors were poor and white and the one's Trump's complaining about are Hispanic.

    If you were in Mexico and poor and had a family, what would you do? Stay there where you know there is little hope for a better future, or walk over and take one of the millions of jobs that WELCOME undocumented labor, and give your family a shot at a better life? It's either stupid or bigoted to insult those people who I HOPE I'd emulate if I was in their shoes.
    Really have to ask that? How old are you? I guess you don't know many people from the old countries like Italy, Germany, Ireland, England that came here in the late 1800s through 1920s and made this nation great.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I think you mean Democratic politicians, but there's a good reason Reagan signed the only amnesty in my adult lifetime and Bush tried like heck for another one, and why during the Bush administration about +4 million illegals crossed over. The Chamber boys love immigration, illegal or otherwise, and they're big donors to the GOPers. Keeps wages low, the labor is dependable and disposable and doesn't complain because if they do they can be deported.
    The fat cat 1% Democrats love it too, they're creating sanctuary cities all over the place and the federal government is giving free undisclosed bus rides to all the illegals that came across the border last year, to cities who were not told. They LOVE illegals, and if Progressives get their way, they'll bypass the Constitution to give citizen's rights to illegals in this country.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you want to say that it's a bipartisan thing, fine, but what you can't do is point to any evidence the GOP has any real interest in shutting off the flow of illegals. There just doesn't exist any - at least not at the upper levels. There is some grassroots opposition, but that doesn't translate to actual policy.
    Sure it's bipartisan - but for totally different reasons. Progressives want a political dynasty on the backs of illegals .... business (from both sides of the political aisle) want cheap labor.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    I've posted the stats a few dozen times. Since Obama took over the net flow is ZERO. In the eight years prior, about +4,000,000. If you want to say it's the freebies, and the rest, why did it STOP with the recession? Maybe it's that Obama did a better job of controlling the border than Bush? OK, I can go with that if you will.
    Stats and studies are relatively meaningless .... you can make stats say anything you want, and everyone from every point of view hires companies to publish studies that tell the story they want to promote.

    One of my favorite books.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to...ith_Statistics
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Really have to ask that? How old are you? I guess you don't know many people from the old countries like Italy, Germany, Ireland, England that came here in the late 1800s through 1920s and made this nation great.
    What I know is almost none of them were the "best" from those countries. Give me a break. Most of them came here with NOTHING, and they came here for the same reason Hispanics come here - for the opportunities this country offers them and their families.

    And, again, what would YOU do in their shoes. Stay in a crap country run by thugs and drug kingpins that offers you and your family almost no opportunity, or walk across the border and overnight provide yourself and your family with FAR more opportunities for a better life? I know what I HOPE I'd do - take the employers here up on their offer for (comparably) great jobs and a better life for my family.

    I'm not trying to insult the immigrants you speak of, but the point is there is really little or no difference between the vast majority of all of our ancestors and the Hispanics coming here today.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    The fat cat 1% Democrats love it too, they're creating sanctuary cities all over the place and the federal government is giving free undisclosed bus rides to all the illegals that came across the border last year, to cities who were not told. They LOVE illegals, and if Progressives get their way, they'll bypass the Constitution to give citizen's rights to illegals in this country.
    Well, what did the Federal government do with the 500,000 per year that came in the Bush administration. Probably harder to get them settled than the NET ZERO since 2008.

    Sure it's bipartisan - but for totally different reasons. Progressives want a political dynasty on the backs of illegals .... business (from both sides of the political aisle) want cheap labor.
    OK, fine, but the draw is the jobs. When the GOP ever gets power and cracks down on their employer buddies giving them big checks, I'll take this BS seriously about opposing illegal immigration from republicans. They like to say the right words to appease the base, then find all kinds of reasons why nothing gets done.

    Stats and studies are relatively meaningless .... you can make stats say anything you want, and everyone from every point of view hires companies to publish studies that tell the story they want to promote.

    One of my favorite books.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to...ith_Statistics
    LOL, the evidence doesn't confirm your biases so you reject the evidence. Hilarious.

    If you want to reject Pew and at least a half dozen other surveys that attempt to measure the illegal population and which all show the same general trends, and have no alternative evidence to present, all you're saying is you don't care about facts, you have your opinions and you're sticking to them no matter how much they conflict with those facts.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Well, what did the Federal government do with the 500,000 per year that came in the Bush administration. Probably harder to get them settled than the NET ZERO since 2008.
    History is always good to reflect on, but it's 7 years later. Why do the Democrats want to pass the NY is Home bill in NY, or give healthcare to illegals for free as part of immigration reform if they aren't bypassing the Constitution? Joe Wilson was right. Why has Obama's INS let 60+ thousand illegals free from US jails and calls them "dreamers" if not to stack the vote for Progressives in the future?

    See this is happening now - not 7 years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, fine, but the draw is the jobs.
    No, the biggest draw is freebies - anchor children, welfare, housing, SNAP cards --- just make sure you vote DEMOCRAT when you want to keep all that stuff. Wink wink.


    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    LOL, the evidence doesn't confirm your biases so you reject the evidence. Hilarious.
    Easily manipulated evidence you swallow hook line and sinker because it confirms your bias is okay, but when someone questions it.... here's a study that says eating dirt is good for you, and it actually has a name - geophagy.

    Eating Dirt Health Benefits - Study on Geophagy

    I'm sure you'll be scooping up some front lawn and chowing down because the study says so.

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you want to reject Pew and at least a half dozen other surveys that attempt to measure the illegal population and which all show the same general trends, and have no alternative evidence to present, all you're saying is you don't care about facts, you have your opinions and you're sticking to them no matter how much they conflict with those facts.
    Polls are a snapshot in time and many times the snapshot methodology isn't provided or is biased in it's questions. Like I said, you want to swallow whatever confirms your biases but when someone questions it, you get offended.
    I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on whats being proposed here, hed agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute. - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    What I know is almost none of them were the "best" from those countries. Give me a break. Most of them came here with NOTHING, and they came here for the same reason Hispanics come here - for the opportunities this country offers them and their families.

    And, again, what would YOU do in their shoes. Stay in a crap country run by thugs and drug kingpins that offers you and your family almost no opportunity, or walk across the border and overnight provide yourself and your family with FAR more opportunities for a better life? I know what I HOPE I'd do - take the employers here up on their offer for (comparably) great jobs and a better life for my family.

    I'm not trying to insult the immigrants you speak of, but the point is there is really little or no difference between the vast majority of all of our ancestors and the Hispanics coming here today.
    What would "I" do?. I would do what my grand parents did. Work. Raise a family that works, owns businesses, graduates from college, serves our nations armed forces and instills its values to next generations.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    40 million people here illegally? Where did you get that figure? Stormfront or WND?

    And you're right, if the parents bring kids over, or have them while they're here, f**k the kids. If the kiddies get sick, we really should just let them die, keep the population down, and those kids sure don't need any education. After all, they can steal or sell drugs for a living if they can't work a job when they grow up. Excellent points all around on this subject!
    You don't seem to understand what a tremendous burden those who are here illegally put on the education and healthcare systems. This is because you don't live in a border state. Easy for you to sit in Tennessee and indulge yourself in hyperbole.

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    If you read the story, in fact almost all of them were released directly consistent with our laws. Many were released because of the SC ruling in 2001, and the rest were released because we don't have the facilities to hold them all in detention for the time it takes for the cases to legally work through the process. The story pointed out ONE person who clearly was a bad mistake.

    And the bottom line is our justice system releases criminals into the streets every hour of every day - thousands of them, out on bail, parole, who go on to commit horrible crimes. It's a risk we know about and we accept because the alternatives are worse. If there is a better alternative for non-violent illegals, then someone should suggest it. Berlin Wall to cut off illegal immigration, a few hundred more prisons, overruling the SC? Not sure what it would take to take the risk of released illegals to zero.
    That's why this thread is about eh laws that allowed them to be released. We have some bad laws/policies in place that need to be changed to stop allowing this kind of thing to happen. We have the opportunity to remove some "undesirables" from our society in the same manner that most nations do and we are failing to do so. The story highlighted one person, but the problem of released illegal immigrants committing additional crimes after their release is well documented and fairly frequent.

    Just because the problem exists in other areas is NOT justification for allowing it this area. In the case of illegal immigrants, if they are here illegally, then the basic standard for dealing them is to send them back to their nation of origin ASAP. That's the MINIMUM that should happen. Just releasing them is STUPID, regardless of whether they have committed any other crimes or not. If you are here illegally and you get arrested for it, then you should be returned to your nation of origin as soon as you have been convicted of this crime.
    Our nation has not always lived up to its ideals, yet those ideals have never ceased to guide us. They expose our flaws, and lead us to mend them. We are the beneficiaries of the work of the generations before us and it is each generation's responsibility to continue that work. - Laura Bush

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    Re: 121 murders attributed to illegals released by Obama administration

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    History is always good to reflect on, but it's 7 years later. Why do the Democrats want to pass the NY is Home bill in NY, or give healthcare to illegals for free as part of immigration reform if they aren't bypassing the Constitution? Joe Wilson was right. Why has Obama's INS let 60+ thousand illegals free from US jails and calls them "dreamers" if not to stack the vote for Progressives in the future?
    Are you being deliberately wrong? The link was to debate on a bill that addresses LEGAL immigrants. What do you expect? They're made legal immigrants, but can't have access to services provided to other LEGAL immigrants?

    And the Dream Act excludes convicted criminals, so that's wrong. You're O for 2 so far.

    See this is happening now - not 7 years ago.

    No, the biggest draw is freebies - anchor children, welfare, housing, SNAP cards --- just make sure you vote DEMOCRAT when you want to keep all that stuff. Wink wink.
    So why did illegal immigration go negative during the recession?

    Easily manipulated evidence you swallow hook line and sinker because it confirms your bias is okay, but when someone questions it....
    OK, you don't like Pew. How about the Census: https://www.dhs.gov/sites/default/fi...ll_pe_2011.pdf

    If you've got other evidence, feel free to provide it, but burying your head in the sand and saying "I CAN'T HEAR YOU! NANANANANANANNA" isn't actually a legitimate argument.

    Polls are a snapshot in time and many times the snapshot methodology isn't provided or is biased in it's questions. Like I said, you want to swallow whatever confirms your biases but when someone questions it, you get offended.
    I'm not offended at all. I'm just a person who tries to make decisions based on the best data and evidence available. If you have any actual evidence I'd love to see it.

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