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Thread: US teacher raped in South Africa.

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm not going to play semantic games here.

    This woman's complete and total lack of common sense, situational awareness, and any kind of regard for her own safety and well-being contributed directly to her rape.

    At the end of the day each individual is responsible for his or her own safety and this woman took absolutely no responsibility for herself.

    In South Africa women should expect that someone will attempt to rape them under any and all circumstances and should always be aware of their surroundings and considering what they can do "right now" to mitigate the tremendous risk they face.

    I agree with you that it's not her "fault", but she served herself up on a silver platter.

    Her attackers have been caught and I don't think that this woman's bone-jarring stupidity should serve as any kind of mitigation in respect to their crimes.

    But at the end of the day she has still been gang raped and her blasé attitude is at least partly responsible for the fact that she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life.
    A stupendous piece of victim blaming. Perhaps you think women should never leave the house so that they don't get raped.
    Here's an idea: instead of telling women to wear certain clothes or avoid going to certain places to avoid being raped, how about telling men NOT TO ****ING RAPE WOMEN.

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    It is not a game of semantics. By blaming the woman and saying that she was asking for it or bought it on herself, you are saying that she was responsible for the rape rather than the rapists.
    Just because she isn't responsible for having been raped does not mean that she shouldn't have taken more precautions for her own safety - especially in a high-crime area.
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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erod View Post
    I have good friends from both Victoria and Johannesburg. They tell me at night you generally stay home if you can, and you never leave your car door unlocked at stop lights. They say people will just walk up and try to open your car door.

    They say the crime rates have almost quadrupled in the past 20 years.
    Well some ares are still better than others, strangely along political lines. Areas controlled by the DA like the Western Cape and Cape Town have less crime than areas where the ANC are popular like the rest of the country. Cape Town and the Western Cape have seen large decreases in crime in recent years which correlates with a large investment in the police force and education initiatives. Part of the increase in crime since 1994 is that the government is not as authoritarian also the white government did not give a **** about crime in the black homelands.

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Invisible View Post
    It is not a game of semantics. By blaming the woman and saying that she was asking for it or bought it on herself, you are saying that she was responsible for the rape rather than the rapists.
    Yes, it is a semantic game.

    Because, yes, this woman is partially responsible for the fact that she was raped.
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    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Politicshead View Post
    A stupendous piece of victim blaming. Perhaps you think women should never leave the house so that they don't get raped.
    Here's an idea: instead of telling women to wear certain clothes or avoid going to certain places to avoid being raped, how about telling men NOT TO ****ING RAPE WOMEN.
    Simple yes or no question for you:

    Would you send your wife/mother/sister/daughter to South Africa and tell her to walk down an alley flaunting it in a miniskirt?

    There you go.

    Answer either "yes" or "no".

    (...and then do the 1234... thing to use up the minimum required characters).
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Simple yes or no question for you:

    Would you send your wife/mother/sister/daughter to South Africa and tell her to walk down an alley flaunting it in a miniskirt?

    There you go.

    Answer either "yes" or "no".

    (...and then do the 1234... thing to use up the minimum required characters).
    There are areas, where it would be no worse than in DC or Detroit.

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    There are areas, where it would be no worse than in DC or Detroit.
    If 25% of the men in Detroit or DC were rapists, 40% of the women who lived in Detroit or DC could expect to be raped at some point in their lifetime, and a rape occurred in Detroit or DC about every 40 seconds.

    If those statistics were factors in Detroit or DC then yeah, everything else being equal, no worse.
    “Now it is not good for the Christian’s health to hustle the Aryan brown,
    For the Christian riles, and the Aryan smiles and he weareth the Christian down;
    And the end of the fight is a tombstone white with the name of the late deceased,
    And the epitaph drear: “A Fool lies here who tried to hustle the East.”

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    I'm not going to play semantic games here.

    This woman's complete and total lack of common sense, situational awareness, and any kind of regard for her own safety and well-being contributed directly to her rape.

    At the end of the day each individual is responsible for his or her own safety and this woman took absolutely no responsibility for herself.

    In South Africa women should expect that someone will attempt to rape them under any and all circumstances and should always be aware of their surroundings and considering what they can do "right now" to mitigate the tremendous risk they face.

    I agree with you that it's not her "fault", but she served herself up on a silver platter.

    Her attackers have been caught and I don't think that this woman's bone-jarring stupidity should serve as any kind of mitigation in respect to their crimes.

    But at the end of the day she has still been gang raped and her blasé attitude is at least partly responsible for the fact that she'll have to live with that for the rest of her life.
    What blase attitude did she take? How was she stupid? How did she take no responsibility?

    She was out jogging. What should she have done? Never leave the house?

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by soot View Post
    Simple yes or no question for you:

    Would you send your wife/mother/sister/daughter to South Africa and tell her to walk down an alley flaunting it in a miniskirt?

    There you go.

    Answer either "yes" or "no".

    (...and then do the 1234... thing to use up the minimum required characters).
    This woman wasn't walking down an alley wearing a miniskirt, she was out jogging in broad daylight.

    I wouldn't tell my wife to do anything. If she wore a short skirt and was raped, I certainly wouldn't be blaming her or saying she had any kind of responsibility.

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    Re: US teacher raped in South Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Because their questionnaire is publically available.
    It was a telephone survey but you can download the questions here...

    CDC Stacks | National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey (NISVS) 2011 victimization questions - 24726 | Library Collection

    The questions were very specific. So what was so shoddy about them?

    Yes sex with someone who is incapacitated (ie passed out drunk) or who is drugged with sedatives is a legal definition of rape, sex with someone who is impaired but responsive May or may not be depending upon circumstances and state law.

    But CDCs study presupposes that sex while impaired is rape.
    No it doesn't. Read the questions.

    What's funny is that the CDC study shows men reporting being forced to have sex with women at similar rates to women claiming they were raped by men, we know right away that's totally bogus, which tells me to ignore it and look at a better study
    We don't know that..or more specifically you don't know that.


    "...More than 200 studies have found “gender symmetry” in perpetration of violence against a marital or dating partner in the sense that about the same percent of women as men physically assault a marital or dating partner. Most of these studies obtained the data using the Conflict Tactics Scales (CTS). However, these results have been challenged by numerous articles in the past 25 years that have asserted that the CTS is invalid. This article identifies and responds to 11 purported methodological problems of the CTS, and two other bases for the belief that the CTS is not valid. The discussion argues that the repeated assertion over the past 25 years that the CTS is invalid is not primarily about methodology. Rather it is primarily about theories and values concerning the results of research showing gender symmetry in perpetration. According to the prevailing “patriarchal dominance” theory, these results cannot be true and therefore the CTS must be invalid. The conclusion suggests that an essential part of the effort to prevent and treat violence against women and by women requires taking into account the dyadic nature of partner violence through use of instruments such as the CTS that measure violence by both partners. Copyright © 2012 John Wiley & Sons, Ltd...."

    Blaming the Messenger for the Bad News about Partner Violence by Women: The Methodological, Theoretical, and Value Basis of the Purported Invalidity of the Conflict Tactics Scales - Straus - 2012 - Behavioral Sciences & the Law - Wiley Online Library

    Ah yes, ye ol "patriarchal dominance theory" so of course it can't possibly be true that men report sexual assault almost equal to women. But then....200 studies suggest they do.


    The question is, if the one in five rate is false (and I argue it is) does it truly help victims of this crime to trumpet phony numbers?

    It's like I fear the phony stories by both Lena Dunham and Rolling Stone have substantially hurt real victims of rape because it gives the impression that most victims lie. And that's the real damage building a case on a bad foundation can cause
    I don't think will it hurt. Most people either didn't read the article or have forgotten about it. But even so I doubt it would change many opinions about rape.
    Last edited by Moot; 06-17-15 at 02:53 PM.

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