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Thread: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    For you maybe, not for me.

    I will NEVER be okay with torture or detaining the innocent without charge or invading countries without just cause.

    As I typed above, if sinking to these lows is the only way for America to survive, then let it die.
    Let America die? That's your answer? Then what? We just become some third world nation full of warring factions?

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    I lost a significant amount of respect for humanity in general and America in particular after witnessing the cowardice and dishonor that the West has employed as a virtual revenge for what happened on that awful September day back in 2001.

    I honestly thought America was flawed but better then that.

    I was wrong...VERY wrong.
    Ah, so this is about America hate.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Actually, I do know about this subject. That, because I am familiar with the US Constitution (including 8th Amendment), I am somewhat familiar with the US Code, I am familiar with the Convention Against Torture that we signed, I am familiar with the Nuremberg trial in general terms, I was reading the news when all that sophistry was advanced by Yoo and others, and because I am very well aware of the mendacity and sophistry commonly employed by elected and unelected leaders.

    Again, it appears you are supremely nave in this regard, and probably equally gullible as to the statements of self-serving politicians.
    You've shown you know just enough about this subject to tick off a few words you think will sound meaningful--Constitution, Eighth Amendment, U.S. Code, CAT, Nurmberg (Shrub and Darth C. were just like the Nazis, dude!), the news--and nothing more. I am sure you have never so much as glanced at a single page of the legal memos you pretend to know are sophistry, and by calling them that you only expose your own. Realizing that you don't know enough about the subject to make even one specific objection to the findings of the Office of Legal Counsel (or those of the lawyers in other federal offices that agreed with them), you try to hide the fact you have no arguments by making a lame crack about my supposed gullibility. You'd do better to consider your own.

    I challenge you, again, to make specific objections to the legal findings of the OLC regarding applicable U.S. laws against torture, as they concern the enhanced interrogation techniques U.S. officials used in 2002 and 2003 to make several jihadist war criminals reveal information about Al Qaeda and its plans to murder still more Americans. Show us how much more you know more about this subject than, say, the supremely naive John Yoo, who teaches at U.C. Berkeley Law School. Use reasoned legal arguments supported by facts, instead of just regurgitating cliche anti-American propaganda against this country. We've been hearing that from the Daily Kos, Media Matters, Mother Jones, and similar sources of leftist slop for the past dozen years.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You are proof that fear leads people to do terrible, inhumane, and flat out evil acts.
    Or perhaps, in this case, all it takes to uncover the truly evil nature of a man is the belief that he has sufficient justification to commit atrocities.
    Last edited by csbrown28; 06-17-15 at 11:58 AM.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    For you maybe, not for me.

    I will NEVER be okay with torture or detaining the innocent without charge or invading countries without just cause.

    As I typed above, if sinking to these lows is the only way for America to survive, then let it die.
    I agree with the first part, but for the last I would simply say that it doesn't have to die, I would recommend advocating change.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Why arent those who are responsible for such inhumane, evil, and just outright criminal activities in jail? Why are they being given a free pass? This is freaking outrageous.
    The definition of "torture" is rather loosely defined here, clearly to fit the author's agenda

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Ah, so this is about America hate.
    It is possible to hate the sin and still love the sinner.

    I'm gonna go out a limb here and say think I speak for DA60 when I say....I love my country, but I will not blindly forgive its sins, lest it becomes the very thing we claim to hate.
    It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary (or faith) depends upon his not understanding it.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Ah, so this is about America hate.
    There is a certain assumption for many in foreign policy that everything is America' / The West's fault. Any conflict, any interpretation, has to be bent back to this assumed conclusion. It's actually a means of moral-self-affirmation. They aren't going to stop denigrating the object because doing so makes them feel good about themselves.
    Last edited by cpwill; 06-17-15 at 12:10 PM.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by csbrown28 View Post
    It is possible to hate the sin and still love the sinner.

    I'm gonna go out a limb here and say think I speak for DA60 when I say....I love my country, but I will not blindly forgive its sins, lest it becomes the very thing we claim to hate.
    Revenge is a sin, retribution is a sin. I suppose we should have just turned the other cheek on 9/12?

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more @: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation[/FONT][/COLOR]
    Why arent those who are responsible for such inhumane, evil, and just outright criminal activities in jail? Why are they being given a free pass? This is freaking outrageous.
    Because they were neither inhumane nor criminal. In fact, they were carefully controlled by the Justice Department in order to make sure that they never risked becoming so.

    And, more generally, because going after people who do dangerous work for you for doing it in the way that you told them to is not only wrong, but self-destructive.

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight
    The United States is a signatory to the 1994 Convention Against Torture, and the provisions it agreed to were ratified by the Senate and codified in section 2340 of the U.S. Code. The United States has not authorized the torture of anyone. The enhanced interrogation techniques the Defense Dept. proposed to use in 2002, including waterboarding, were modeled on techniques the U.S. itself had used on thousands of servicemen as part of their survival training. The purpose was to give men most likely to be captured some experience of what they might expect if captured by certain enemies.

    The Justice Dept.'s Office of Legal Counsel, which contains some of its best lawyers, thoroughly evaluated the proposed techniques and concluded that they did not violate any applicable U.S. laws, including section 2340. I have read their memos, and they are as good as legal research gets. If it can be shown that any U.S. official administered those interrogation techniques in a way that was not approved, that person should be disciplined. But so far, I have not seen any reliably documented instances of any acts that constituted torture under U.S. law.

    Interrogation can be very painful and coercive, both physically and mentally, and yet not constitute torture under our laws. There has to be room for enough coercion to get results--the whole idea was the make murdering jihadist war criminals reveal what they knew, and with more attacks in the works, we had to find out that information fast. These mangy mutts got off damned easy. The only good reason not to have tried them before a military tribunal and executed them, after they had coughed up their secrets, was that once their pals found out they would be killed anyway they would probably not reveal anything.
    what this guy said.

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