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Thread: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    An appeal to emotion as reason to trash the constitution. Don't ever tell anyone about the importance of the constitution in this forum again.
    Good job being totally off base.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That saddens me that you are accurate.


    AS horrible as 9/11 was, what America has done in the name of patriotism since then is - imo - far worse then 9/11.

    The 'war on Terror' has killed far, FAR more innocent people then 9/11 ever did and has caused directly and indirectly so much more suffering, misery and world instability.

    Anyone who agrees with how America has conducted herself since 9/11 - especially on the international stage - should be ashamed of themselves.

    What the 9/11 terrorists did was horrific..and what America has done in the name of the War on Terror since then is even more horrific.
    So I am sure you wish to bash America for dropping to atom bombs on Japan as well.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    This isnt a conversation. Im trying to get straight answers. This is a debate. You havent answered several but instead what around simple questions and others you havent answered at all. Just trying to get straight answers..
    Debate is over, I told you what I think. As usual you dont like it. As usual I dont care what you think.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Good job being totally off base.
    Why yes... yes you were.


    *protip: "9/11 changed everythang....!111!!!!!" Is not a valid argument in this topic.
    Ive been around for a long time and it just seems that the economy does better under the Democrats than the Republicans. -- Donald Trump

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    So? You have a name, under what circumstances?
    Martin Mubanga. UK/Zambian joint dual citizen.

    Mubanga was living with relatives, in Zambia, when he was arrested by Zambian Police, accompanied by US security officials. He was not charged with any crime in Zambia. He was transported out of Zambia without the US requesting an official extradition.

    Mubanga says that when he was first arrested, in Zambia, he was interrogated by a British man who claimed he was an "MI6 official," and an American woman who told him she a "Defense official". They told him that his UK passport, which he had reported stolen, was found in an al Qaeda cave in Afghanistan. They invited him to be an undercover agent, to penetrate al Qaeda for them. When he declined, they shipped him to the US military prison at Guantanamo Bay.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Mubanga

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    That's awfully facile. You confine yourself to a drive-by bleat, because you are afraid to lace on the gloves and climb into the ring. Instead of just asserting that what I said is sophistry, why don't you tell us specifically which points of law Jay Bybee and John Yoo got wrong, in which of their memos on this subject, and explain why you think their legal analysis of each point was incorrect? I'll tell you why--it's because you have never read a single sentence of even one of those documents, and would not have understood it if you had tried.

    I have read those memos, and also quite a few others that are part of the thousands of pages of government documents on this subject. As someone who has written legal research memos on difficult subjects, I know what's involved--and the quality of the analysis of this subject by the Office of Legal Counsel is as good as it gets. Because section 2340 had only been on the books for several years, there was not even one case construing it, and that made the task of determining what constituted torture under U.S. laws even harder. But determine it Bybee and Yoo did, and having analyzed their memos pretty closely, I believe they got it right. I don't think any of the enhanced interrogation techniques, including waterboarding, even came very close to being torture under the law.

    You do not know the first thing about this subject, so you swallow whole some witless anti-American propaganda you read in Mother Jones, or saw on MSNBC. The intellectual quality of the "analysis" by the usual lump in the lumpenproletariat is roughly this: "Woah, man, they like tortured those dudes at Gitmo really bad! Put water up their nose and s***, just for the crime of being Muslim!" Millions of these malcontent ignoramuses now infest this country, loathe it just like their fellow statist in the White House does, and are eager to believe anything bad about it. Their resentment of America gives them common cause with the Muslim jihadists who want us all dead.

    I'd like once again to recommend a book by Andy McCarthy, a former federal prosecutor. Mr. McCarthy played an important role in convicting and sending to prison Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman for his part in the conspiracy that resulted in the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. The title is The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America".
    Actually, I do know about this subject. That, because I am familiar with the US Constitution (including 8th Amendment), I am somewhat familiar with the US Code, I am familiar with the Convention Against Torture that we signed, I am familiar with the Nuremberg trial in general terms, I was reading the news when all that sophistry was advanced by Yoo and others, and because I am very well aware of the mendacity and sophistry commonly employed by elected and unelected leaders.

    Again, it appears you are supremely nave in this regard, and probably equally gullible as to the statements of self-serving politicians.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    That saddens me that you are accurate.


    AS horrible as 9/11 was, what America has done in the name of patriotism since then is - imo - far worse then 9/11.

    The 'war on Terror' has killed far, FAR more innocent people then 9/11 ever did and has caused directly and indirectly so much more suffering, misery and world instability.

    Anyone who agrees with how America has conducted herself since 9/11 - especially on the international stage - should be ashamed of themselves.

    What the 9/11 terrorists did was horrific..and what America has done in the name of the War on Terror since then is even more horrific.
    Agreed.

    What saddens me the most (as a raised Catholic but fallen away type) is that so many of my Christian friends will not condemn the torture. They accept it because it's being done mostly to muslims, and many enthusiastically support it. A very sad state of affairs IMO.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    Why yes... yes you were.


    *protip: "9/11 changed everythang....!111!!!!!" Is not a valid argument in this topic.
    Pro tip, deal with fact. 9/11 did change everything.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Agreed.

    What saddens me the most (as a raised Catholic but fallen away type) is that so many of my Christian friends will not condemn the torture. They accept it because it's being done mostly to muslims, and many enthusiastically support it. A very sad state of affairs IMO.
    I lost a significant amount of respect for humanity in general and America in particular after witnessing the cowardice and dishonor that the West has employed as a virtual revenge for what happened on that awful September day back in 2001.

    I honestly thought America was flawed but better then that.

    I was wrong...VERY wrong.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Pro tip, deal with fact. 9/11 did change everything.
    For you maybe, not for me.

    I will NEVER be okay with torture or detaining the innocent without charge or invading countries without just cause.

    As I typed above, if sinking to these lows is the only way for America to survive, then let it die.
    'What kind of sick and twisted toy factory is this?'
    'We are all the sum of our tears. Too little and the ground is not fertile, and nothing can grow there. Too much, the best of us is washed away.'
    "Better to be dead and cool, than alive and uncool."

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