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Thread: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

  1. #111
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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    The Eighth Amendment is part of the Constitution of the United States--not some imaginary constitution of the world. Neither that amendment nor or anything else in the Bill of Rights has ever protected enemy aliens detained abroad by U.S. military forces during time of war. It's revealing that you don't know something as basic as that. The only constitutional protection the Court has ever held the jihadists detained at Guantanamo were entitled to is habeas corpus. See Boumediene v. Bush, 553 U.S. 723 (2008). That right is satisfied by Combatant Status Review Tribunals, which are courtroom proceedings held at Guantanamo.

    Whether torture in general violated the Eighth Amendment's prohibition of cruel or unusual punishment would be irrelevant in any case, because none of the enhanced interrogation techniques authorized for use by U.S. officials constituted torture under applicable U.S. laws. Your personal definition of torture, uninformed by those laws, is not relevant to that question.



    As I said, the provisions of the 1994 Convention Against Torture U.S. negotiators agreed to were mainly codified in sections 2340, 2340A, and 2340B. Torture is also discussed in some other federal laws, e.g. the war crimes statute you mentioned.

    In a just world, many of the jihadist sons of bitches who were captured and detained at Guantanamo would long ago have been tried before military tribunals, convicted, and had their greasy necks stretched on a gallows, with the proceedings broadcast live so their pals overseas could watch, and learn. Being hooded and strung up like a piece of meat is not exactly going out in a blaze of glory. To hell with them, and soon, and may their helpmates join them there.

    Any America-hater who has the crying towel out for these war criminals might want to read about how quickly and decisively FDR dealt with a group of Nazi saboteurs captured here in the summer of 1942. A couple books have been written about it. The Supreme Court heard and denied their appeal in Ex Parte Quirin, 317 U.S. 1 (1942). One fine day soon after that, only two months after they had landed here by U-boat, the six convicted war criminals--one of them a U.S. citizen--were taken to a building in New York, and one hour apart, electrocuted.
    Your xenophobic hatred very much eclipses any rational and legal reasoning you might offer. By your post, you are consumed by hatred so much that you completely rationalize 18USC2441.

    No surprise here.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Actually I do, but the "torture" wasn't judged as torture at the time.
    Who do you depend upon to define torture for you?

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Who do you depend upon to define torture for you?
    Who I depend on is irrelevant, the DoJ defined it and it wasn't considered torture. Are the facts, not irrelevant personal opinions.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who I depend on is irrelevant, the DoJ defined it and it wasn't considered torture. Are the facts, not irrelevant personal opinions.
    Actually, wasn't it the OLC that defined it? Wasn't it Yoo and his staff? Not that DoJ wouldn't go along with such sophistry, for surely it did.

    But thank you for the insight into how YOU judge what is torture and what is not, speaking of personal opinions. Ain't it great when personal opinions happen to agree with White House appointees?

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Actually, wasn't it the OLC that defined it? Wasn't it Yoo and his staff? Not that DoJ wouldn't go along with such sophistry, for surely it did.

    But thank you for the insight into how YOU judge what is torture and what is not, speaking of personal opinions. Ain't it great when personal opinions happen to agree with White House appointees?
    Who says my personal opinion agrees with the WH? Only you, because your post indicates the inability to read and comprehend.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who says my personal opinion agrees with the WH? Only you, because your post indicates the inability to read and comprehend.
    Your posts on this thread strongly suggest your personal opinion agrees with the WH, Yoo and his fellow barbarians, on this issue.

    I hope I have misinterpreted, but you are being a bit coy about it. Please correct me.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by American View Post
    Who says my personal opinion agrees with the WH? Only you, because your post indicates the inability to read and comprehend.
    Your posts on this thread strongly suggest your personal opinion agrees with the WH, Yoo and his fellow barbarians, on this issue.

    I hope I have misinterpreted, but you are being a bit coy about it. Please correct me.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Quote Originally Posted by Henry David View Post
    Your posts on this thread strongly suggest your personal opinion agrees with the WH, Yoo and his fellow barbarians, on this issue.

    I hope I have misinterpreted, but you are being a bit coy about it. Please correct me.
    Nice try, maybe you should just think on it a bit longer instead of just reaching.
    "He who does not think himself worth saving from poverty and ignorance by his own efforts, will hardly be thought worth the efforts of anybody else." -- Frederick Douglass, Self-Made Men (1872)
    "Fly-over" country voted, and The Donald is now POTUS.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    Andy McCarthy is a former federal prosecutor who played an important role in prosecuting and sending to prison Abdel "The Blind Sheikh" Rahman for his part in the conspiracy leading to the 1993 bombing of the World Trade Center. McCarthy has written several fine, well-documented books, and I would like to recommend one of them, because it deals with a threat all Americans should be aware of. That is the largely successful campaign Islamists have been carrying on in this country to enlist leftists who share their loathing of it to defend Islamic supremacism and jihad.

    The title of the book is "The Grand Jihad: How Islam and the Left Sabotage America." The phrase "grand jihad" is taken from a document that was seized from one of the Muslim Brotherhood's many front groups in this country. This document was an important part of the evidence presented in federal court in the successful criminal prosecution of a group called the "Holy Land Foundation." It was written to the leadership in Egypt to explain the front groups' strategy for promoting the Muslim Brotherhood's goals, its "grand jihad." Part of this strategy, the document reveals, is to persuade Americans to support those goals. Radical Islamists know that violent jihad is not the only way to attack and subvert the United States. To the extent they can convince Americans that they should be sympathetic to jihadists, or at least not take very strong military action against them, they are doing the jihadists' work for them.

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    Re: CIA torture appears to have broken spy agency rule on human experimentation

    I just don't understand what the big deal is, - that some people have against torture.

    If someone knows of the where- abouts, Location of a rapist or child molester or a terrorist or a bad person and they try to protect that person. Should not whatever that You can do, Be Done - to force the information out of the individual.

    To save lives, prevent others from being raped Ect... But i understand that torture procedures can be abused by the wrong people too.

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