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Thread: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Umm, that's categorically untrue. NAFTA did exactly that and people to this day are bitching about the way in which jobs have moved either down to Mexico or ceased to exist or shipped over to another country. Hell, you can look at Detroit's decline (due for the most part to liberalization) and conclude that the people most affected by it are not in support of it. Hell, the average blue collar production line employee in America doesn't want to hear anything about these free trade agreements because of how damaging they've been to the whole idea of American manufacturing.

    Liberalization doesn't just mean lower tariffs and cheaper products. It also has implications on the notions of intellectual property, agriculture the strength of local industries and the flow of labor. So no, liberalization is not something supported by everybody or even the majority of people. Good grief, haven't you seen the protests against the G20?



    I stopped reading here. If you think Ron Paul is an isolationist in economic terms, you're less informed than I thought on the matter and I'm not even a Ron Paul fan.
    Sure jobs will change and shift and there is pain. All change has brought that with it. So you would rather be a caveman?

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Sure jobs will change and shift and there is pain. All change has brought that with it. So you would rather be a caveman?
    I'm not opposed to all liberalization. I am however disappointed with the way in which Obama has gone about this. I may support his views on many issues, but this is one he clearly screwed up on simply so he could say he got a bipartisan victory.
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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I find it interesting how this trade bill requires a component in it to deal with all the people who will lose jobs should it pass. That little trip wire sure causes me to step back a few paces from understanding what is being attempted here.
    I think what the "lost employment" component of this trade bill is trying to do is protect jobs that otherwise might be lost because foreign employers may want to "hire their own" similar to what took place in the early-80's when American auto manufacturers retooled using Japanese ingenuity to remake the auto industry after the 1979 recession. It was about that time that outsourcing began to can hold and subsequently soar. If this is true, it makes me wonder why House Democrats voted against this provision given our current low employment figures in manufacturing jobs overall.

    As to the fast-track measure, I'd have to give it more thought (not to mention read the bill) but on the surface it seems a good idea since all the bill appears to do is ensure an up or down vote on trade deals submitted from the President. What gets me, however, is why the House is voting on this? I suppose of such trade deals are presented to Congress as a bill, then this makes since. But if such are presented as "treaties," then shouldn't this be between the President and the Senate?
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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Objective Voice View Post
    I think what the "lost employment" component of this trade bill is trying to do is protect jobs that otherwise might be lost because foreign employers may want to "hire their own" similar to what took place in the early-80's when American auto manufacturers retooled using Japanese ingenuity to remake the auto industry after the 1979 recession. It was about that time that outsourcing began to can hold and subsequently soar. If this is true, it makes me wonder why House Democrats voted against this provision given our current low employment figures in manufacturing jobs overall.

    As to the fast-track measure, I'd have to give it more thought (not to mention read the bill) but on the surface it seems a good idea since all the bill appears to do is ensure an up or down vote on trade deals submitted from the President. What gets me, however, is why the House is voting on this? I suppose of such trade deals are presented to Congress as a bill, then this makes since. But if such are presented as "treaties," then shouldn't this be between the President and the Senate?
    House Dems voted against that aspect because the bill as a whole can't pass without both parts, and the ... here....

    Obama quest for fast-track trade bill on ice in House | Reuters

    Hours before lawmakers were due to vote on the legislation, Obama arrived at Capitol Hill with Labor Secretary Thomas Perez for the culmination of a short but intense blitz to counter union efforts to use the worker support program to kill fast-track.

    The AFL-CIO, the country's largest labor organization, claimed that funding for the worker aid program would be insufficient.

    But it also rallied support for its cause by arguing that a vote against worker aid would be the perfect tactic for stopping fast track.
    jallman: "It's all good. At least you have a thick skin and can take being poked fun back at without crying. "

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by ocean515 View Post
    I find it interesting how this trade bill requires a component in it to deal with all the people who will lose jobs should it pass. That little trip wire sure causes me to step back a few paces from understanding what is being attempted here.
    Along with 700 million pilfered from Medicare to pay for the retraining of all those that lose their jobs because of it.
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by joG View Post
    Sure jobs will change and shift and there is pain. All change has brought that with it. So you would rather be a caveman?
    Lol. So there's nothing in between the caveman and acceptance of a trade deal negotiated by corporate execs and industry lobbyists?
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    A weak POTUS and his know-nothing party = failure. For our country's sake let's hope the Repubs can save the day.

    House Rejects Trade Bill as Democrats Spurn the White House
    "It's always reassuring to find you've made the right enemies." -- William J. Donovan

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Nobody has changed the subject. You couldn't really counter my information with anything so you tried to get on some silliness about whether Hillary supports the specifics of a deal that nobody seems privy too except the people making it. I already said she supported the deal and unless its goals and the way it is being achieved have drastically changed - which I doubt - she still does. Is she keeping quiet on it? That's entirely false. It's more likely that as a former member of the administration, it would not be a practical idea to trash talk the very deal you advocated for right up until you left office. So what do we have? The same thing I stated in the beginning. Unless you can show Hillary changing her position on this issue - AT ANY POINT - the only logical choice is that she continues to support it and is more concerned with issues pertinent to the election. The TPP - supported by many Republicans - is hardly an issue that the GOP is going to try and run on, so why the hell would Hillary when she was amongst the first people to support it?
    Again there seems to be a real disconnect between what I post and what you are reading. I haven't countered anything you have posted about what Hillary supports because she hasn't told us what she supports. Again, if all you have is that she supports the stated goals of the TPP three years ago and that hasn't changed, I will ask you how you know that hadn't changed. And if she is supporting something based purely on the general goals rather than the nuts and bolts of how those goals will be achieved, that in no way qualifies her to be President and in fact is an very good reason she is unqualified.
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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    haven't countered anything you have posted about what Hillary supports because she hasn't told us what she supports.
    EXCEPT I POSTED HER WORDS SHOWING THAT SHE IS CLEARLY SUPPORTIVE OF IT. Do you believe that she was praising the deal when it first got underway because she was against it or neutral on the matter? If you want her to comment on the existing specifics of the deal, that's silly as she stopped being head of the DOS nearly 2 years ago and would have no role/knowledge of separate sections. However, her support for the deal is unquestionable unless you have SOMETHING else to contradict it. If this is too much for you, I understand.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post

    it was great for walmart because they were able to buy cheaper products from china, and assisted the chinese to be able to pass us and emerge as the world's foremost economic power
    we bought cheap stuff
    at least those who had money to buy
    I'm glad you mention Walmart. While NaFTA was getting signed don't forget Hillary Clinton was on the board of directors for Walmart.

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