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Thread: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    EVERYBODY supports goals to further expand and liberalize trade between nations.
    Umm, that's categorically untrue. NAFTA did exactly that and people to this day are bitching about the way in which jobs have moved either down to Mexico or ceased to exist or shipped over to another country. Hell, you can look at Detroit's decline (due for the most part to liberalization) and conclude that the people most affected by it are not in support of it. Hell, the average blue collar production line employee in America doesn't want to hear anything about these free trade agreements because of how damaging they've been to the whole idea of American manufacturing.

    Liberalization doesn't just mean lower tariffs and cheaper products. It also has implications on the notions of intellectual property, agriculture the strength of local industries and the flow of labor. So no, liberalization is not something supported by everybody or even the majority of people. Good grief, haven't you seen the protests against the G20?

    Even the most staunch isolationist like a Ron Paul is in favor of that.
    I stopped reading here. If you think Ron Paul is an isolationist in economic terms, you're less informed than I thought on the matter and I'm not even a Ron Paul fan.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Umm, that's categorically untrue. NAFTA did exactly that and people to this day are bitching about the way in which jobs have moved either down to Mexico or ceased to exist or shipped over to another country. Hell, you can look at Detroit's decline (due for the most part to liberalization) and conclude that the people most affected by it are not in support of it. Hell, the average blue collar production line employee in America doesn't want to hear anything about these free trade agreements because of how damaging they've been to the whole idea of American manufacturing.

    Liberalization doesn't just mean lower tariffs and cheaper products. It also has implications on the notions of intellectual property, agriculture the strength of local industries and the flow of labor. So no, liberalization is not something supported by everybody or even the majority of people. Good grief, haven't you seen the protests against the G20?

    I stopped reading here. If you think Ron Paul is an isolationist in economic terms, you're less informed than I thought on the matter and I'm not even a Ron Paul fan.
    And since you seem unable to understand what I said and are completely missing the point I have been making and seem determined to change the subject, I will accept that my communication skills are unequal to that task and will wish you a good day.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    And since you seem unable to understand what I said and are completely missing the point I have been making and seem determined to change the subject, I will accept that my communication skills are unequal to that task and will wish you a good day.
    I understand it perfectly. I just find your claim that Hillary remains mum on the issue false. She has stated her support for the TPP. Unless its intended goals have changed, then there is no reason for her not to support it.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I understand it perfectly. I just find your claim that Hillary remains mum on the issue false. She has stated her support for the TPP. Unless its intended goals have changed, then there is no reason for her not to support it.
    If she supports it based on stated goals rather than stated policy, she is absolutely unqualified and unfit to be President. That's the truth, short and simple.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix View Post
    sweet. thumbs up!

    the trade agreement is going to pass anyway and screw over US workers like all of the other ones, but at least it is stalled for a microsecond.
    My major concern is that companies can sue Govts for lost profits- goes to an independent arbitration board.We had the case up here when Canada banned MMT, a gasoline additive. Govt paid up, removed the ban. Australia is having the same problems with their trade deals.
    So environmental, is up for grabs, rules for banks, open season on lessening regs as many want, basically eviscerating good sense regs and laws. that do not hinder trade in any way what so ever.
    This is just not is regard to TPP but the trade deal with the EU as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJames3000 View Post
    You need to revisit the chain of association... you only insisted you were a Trump-supporter after you figured out that made you a pederast as well. If I were you. I'd be more discreet about it... but I guess it's your dime.

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    If she supports it based on stated goals rather than stated policy, she is absolutely unqualified and unfit to be President. That's the truth, short and simple.
    Politicians support issues based on goals rather than stated policy all of the time. It's how we got so many key elements of the Patriot Act overturned. It's not indicative of their capabilities as executives in the least bit as even major corporations do this. What you should know however is that it is Democrats who are being lauded for overturning this bill. What does that tell you about your party's position on the matter?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Politicians support issues based on goals rather than stated policy all of the time. It's how we got so many key elements of the Patriot Act overturned. It's not indicative of their capabilities as executives in the least bit as even major corporations do this. What you should know however is that it is Democrats who are being lauded for overturning this bill. What does that tell you about your party's position on the matter?
    I could give a flying fig about what party has a position on the matter. It is good policy or it isn't regardless of which party does or does not support it. Still trying to change the subject?

    I was answering the question of whether Hillary Clinton has taken a position on this matter. Given her track record of usually taking the position her audience wants to hear, it is safe to say that she has not taken a position on the TPP. And I will stand by my conviction that if she supports a binding treaty based on its stated goals rather than on what is actually implemented, she is unfit to be President of the United States.
    "I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it." --Benjamin Franklin 1776

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by justabubba View Post
    and if it was actually an exercise in good public policy, why was it something to be hidden from the public?
    no doubt there were benefits
    but i suspect the disadvantages would outweigh those benefits. but because only the insiders can know what is in the proposed TPP, i cannot assure my assessment is a valid one

    looking back on NAFTA, there was a substantial amount of opposition, yet that FREE trade agreement passed. and many jobs were lost. my state went from being the first in the nation in the portion of employment coming from industry/manufacturing to second tier. we lost much of the textile, communications, furniture, and tobacco production

    it was great for walmart because they were able to buy cheaper products from china, and assisted the chinese to be able to pass us and emerge as the world's foremost economic power
    we bought cheap stuff
    at least those who had money to buy
    it wasn't from those who lost their jobs due to FREE trade

    and now they want FAST track

    we should insist on transparency about what is (supposedly) being negotiated in our behalf

    and we should insist on FAIR trade for a change (we can actually believe in)

    out trading partners, to access our lucrative markets, should be required to comply with OSHA, Labor and EPA rules just as American companies must. only then it would be FAIR trade
    Not an issue for Canada and the EU on safety, regs and such. many are comparable.
    For 2nd tier countries a time frame to adapt would be reasonable.
    Quote Originally Posted by RickJames3000 View Post
    You need to revisit the chain of association... you only insisted you were a Trump-supporter after you figured out that made you a pederast as well. If I were you. I'd be more discreet about it... but I guess it's your dime.

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by AlbqOwl View Post
    I could give a flying fig about what party has a position on the matter. It is good policy or it isn't regardless of which party does or does not support it. Still trying to change the subject?
    Nobody has changed the subject. You couldn't really counter my information with anything so you tried to get on some silliness about whether Hillary supports the specifics of a deal that nobody seems privy too except the people making it. I already said she supported the deal and unless its goals and the way it is being achieved have drastically changed - which I doubt - she still does. Is she keeping quiet on it? That's entirely false. It's more likely that as a former member of the administration, it would not be a practical idea to trash talk the very deal you advocated for right up until you left office. So what do we have? The same thing I stated in the beginning. Unless you can show Hillary changing her position on this issue - AT ANY POINT - the only logical choice is that she continues to support it and is more concerned with issues pertinent to the election. The TPP - supported by many Republicans - is hardly an issue that the GOP is going to try and run on, so why the hell would Hillary when she was amongst the first people to support it?
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    This is good news.Hopefully this trade deal never passes.It amazes that Many of these same politicians who voted for this trade deal do not want to help workers who will lose their jobs as a result of this trade deal.

    Obama quest for fast-track trade bill defeated for now in House | Reuters
    The House of Representatives on Friday delivered a blow to President Barack Obama's signature goal of strengthening ties with Asia but could try again as soon as Tuesday to reverse defeat of a measure central to a Pacific Rim trade pact.
    In a dramatic vote, Obama's own Democrats, as well as Republicans, rejected a program to give aid to workers who lose their jobs as a result of U.S. trade deals with other countries. The measure was soundly defeated in a 302-126 vote.
    That was quickly followed by the House's narrow approval of a separate measure to give Obama "fast-track" authority to negotiate the Trans-Pacific Partnership trade deal. But the legislation is stuck in the House because of the defeat Obama and House Speaker John Boehner suffered on the first vote.
    A House Republican aide told reporters Republican leaders hope to try again Tuesday to pass the worker aid portion of the bill. That would allow the entire trade promotion authority (TPA) legislation to be signed into law by Obama, but its chances were unclear.
    White House spokesman Josh Earnest dismissed the failed vote as a "procedural snafu" and was confident Democrats would come around to support the measure.
    Republican Pete Sessions said Democrats would have to do some "soul-searching this weekend" to figure out the future of the worker support program, known as trade adjustment assistance (TAA.)
    "We're going to pass TPA," said Sessions, the head of the powerful House rules committee. "The question is going to be whether TAA is going to be in it."
    The worker aid program drew heavy opposition from both parties, with 158 Republicans joining 144 Democrats in voting "no."
    Trading partners such as Japan have urged the U.S. Congress to pass fast-track to help wrap up a Pacific Rim trade deal covering 40 percent of the world's economy.
    The fact that there is so much resistance to the present trade deals in every signing county shows how entrenched the special interests are and how large the welfare benefits will be, if we get the deals done.

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