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Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Crue! Ya let me down big time. I at least figured I'd get some attempt at an answer.

You dont want answers. You want a choir calling for all cops heads.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Suppose, as some here have suggested, the cops would have called to the youth from a distance with their loud speaker telling him to drop the gun or, whatever ultimatum they wanted to affix to it, and he had dropped it on the ground and stepped back away from it an acceptable distance? This child would still be with us, and would have learned one hell of a lesson. Speak to that CC.
Should the cops in Aurora just stood out in the parking lot of the theater and called for the shooter?
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Should the cops in Aurora just stood out in the parking lot of the theater and called for the shooter?

LMAO. The shooter in Aurora killed 12, injured 70, in a mass killing. Tamir Rice shot no one with his BB gun. You've got to be kidding comparing those two events.:doh:lamo
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

You dont want answers. You want a choir calling for all cops heads.

That wasn't a very good answer either. Why do you have trouble making a distinction between bad cops that should be weeded out and the rest of the cops that actually follow the rules, live up to their oath and are an asset in the profession and to the communities that they work in, hmm??
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Should the cops in Aurora just stood out in the parking lot of the theater and called for the shooter?

See, perhaps you're one of those that needs to be weeded out. You're actually going to draw a comparison of response between an active shooter in a dark theatre, with people on the ground, and a kid who has an air soft in his waste band, even if you think it is a 1911?? :doh
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

Which is irrelevant to his response being legal or not.


Of course it isn't.


Yeah, it pretty much does.
It shows the Officer responding to the threat that Tamir presented by reaching/grabbing the gun.

It really doesn't show that very clearly though. Even enhanced it doesn't really show much.
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

It really doesn't show that very clearly though. Even enhanced it doesn't really show much.
It shows him reaching. Enhanced the gun can be made out. So again, back to the non-vacuum.
Does that image provide a visual of what the Officer supposedly said of him going for the gun? Why yes it does.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

LMAO. The shooter in Aurora killed 12, injured 70, in a mass killing. Tamir Rice shot no one with his BB gun. You've got to be kidding comparing those two events.:doh:lamo

It is an appropriate comment. Let me ask you: would you have been upset if this were an Active shooter and the police didn't respond immediately? Let me take you back to columbine.

Police were THERE. But their policy was not to go in. That is a BAD policy. For the obvious reason that police need to stop the incident immediately. Putting resistance up is key to stopping a shooter.

Taking it back to the BB gun. I don't know what the police heard on the radio. I don't know if they heard "active shooter" or if they heard "kid with gun shooting" or if it was just "kid with gun." It can be chaotic. Even if they have the laptop screen telling them the call and updating them on the situation. They only know what the dispatch can convey.

So. Police SHOULD have responded immediately to the call with a person with a gun. Especially if they were pointing it. That thing looked real. That BB gun might as well have been an exact replica of a 1911 or whatever. Rolling right up? That was stupid.
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

It shows him reaching. Enhanced the gun can be made out. So again, back to the non-vacuum.
Does that image provide a visual of what the Officer supposedly said of him going for the gun? Why yes it does.

Reaching or lifting his shirt? Or throwing it away?
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

Reaching or lifting his shirt? Or throwing it away?
Did the Officer say he was just lifting his shirt? Did he say he was throwing it away?
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

Did the Officer say he was just lifting his shirt? Did he say he was throwing it away?

Has to be taken with a grain of salt. Especially given some of the statements about the officer in question. Crying during live fire training? Grain of salt.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

It is an appropriate comment. Let me ask you: would you have been upset if this were an Active shooter and the police didn't respond immediately? Let me take you back to columbine.

We can stop there. Rice wasn't an active shooter, he didn't shoot or injure or kill anyone. If he had that would have been conveyed to the police officers.

Police were THERE. But their policy was not to go in. That is a BAD policy. For the obvious reason that police need to stop the incident immediately. Putting resistance up is key to stopping a shooter.

If Tamir Rice was a "shooter" then we'd be having an entirely different discussion. We'd all have been fine with police taking him out at the earliest opportunity.
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

We can stop there. Rice wasn't an active shooter, he didn't shoot or injuRe anyone.

But Rice was a Black child and to the police that's just as big a threat. That's why the police got so close; because they didn't want to miss when they started shooting at Tamir. Dispatch relayed to them repeatedly that the gun was a toy.
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

Has to be taken with a grain of salt.
:doh
Bs! What he supposedly said is corroborated. That is not something to take with a grain of salt.


Especially given? More bs.
That has nothing to do with whether his response was legal.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

We can stop there. Rice wasn't an active shooter, he didn't shoot or injure or kill anyone. If he had that would have been conveyed to the police officers.



If Tamir Rice was a "shooter" then we'd be having an entirely different discussion. We'd all have been fine with police taking him out at the earliest opportunity.

I think you are missing the point. Look at what you said at the end: "we'd all be fine with police taking him out at the earliest opportunity."

What if he were a shooter who hadn't fired the first shot yet? He had all intentions? I'm saying that to act as if the police response was completely "unreasonable" because he was a 12 year old with a BB gun isn't exactly true. He was a 12 year old with a BB gun that looked VERY much like a firearm.

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So it really isn't about the fact that he didn't have a firearm. He had the above and the above looked real. There are several facts we need to know before we can call this criminal and not negligence.

1) What did dispatch report?

2) What did rice do when police drove up?

3) Did the officer give commands that rice disobeyed?

4) Was the REAL looking BB gun visible to the officers?
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

But Rice was a Black child and to the police that's just as big a threat. That's why the police got so close; because they didn't want to miss when they started shooting at Tamir. Dispatch relayed to them repeatedly that the gun was a toy.

Evidence?
 
Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

:doh
Bs! What he supposedly said is corroborated. That is not something to take with a grain of salt.


Especially given? More bs.
That has nothing to do with whether his response was legal.

Do you really think that someone who cries at the firing line...is going to have the best judgement during a force encounter in the real world? Or do you think they might be prone to making panicked decisions? As you said: this isn't in a vacuum.

And witness testimony DID contradict what he said. Whether or not witnesses can be trusted is another question. It is important to note that memory is not as good and gets worse the longer from an incident we wait to recall.

Evidence of criminal action? Maybe not. But it does look like the rookie was very much a Barney and not someone who could be trusted with a firearm.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

See, perhaps you're one of those that needs to be weeded out. You're actually going to draw a comparison of response between an active shooter in a dark theatre, with people on the ground, and a kid who has an air soft in his waste band, even if you think it is a 1911?? :doh

Not shooting to actively shooting is just a trigger pull away.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

That wasn't a very good answer either. Why do you have trouble making a distinction between bad cops that should be weeded out and the rest of the cops that actually follow the rules, live up to their oath and are an asset in the profession and to the communities that they work in, hmm??

Weeding out and charging with murder are two different things.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

LMAO. The shooter in Aurora killed 12, injured 70, in a mass killing. Tamir Rice shot no one with his BB gun. You've got to be kidding comparing those two events.:doh:lamo

Not kidding at all.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Weeding out and charging with murder are two different things.

BINGO!

I would say this video is potentially good evidence for negligence, and certainly enough to disqualify the shooter from this line of work. But murder is a VERY serious charge that is MUCH different than what the actual charge that might be considered for this case.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Not kidding at all.

OK, then no one needs to take the comparison seriously. Simple enough!
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Too complicated for ya?

It's not complicated at all. One incident was an active shooter in the process of murdering 12 and injuring 70. The other incident involved no shootings, no one injured, no one killed. In the Aurora incident, the shooter was in a crowded theater in the process of a mass slaughter. In the Rice incident, when the police arrived, he was sitting at a picnic table, alone, with no one in the vicinity, no one nearby dead, or injured. In Aurora, the shooter was inside a building, inside a theater in that building and the police can observe nothing from their cars. In the Rice case he's outside, in a VERY open area, sitting in an open Gazebo, and police can observe all this safely from a long distance away and evaluate the situation, the risk, etc. In Aurora, immediate action was critical because the murders were taking place when they rolled up. In the Rice case, they could take their time and evaluate the situation because no one was shot or injured nor was Rice aiming at or shooting at anyone. He was sitting quietly at a picnic table.

They're as different as two incidents can possibly be and involve a firearm in any way.

Bottom line is if you want to say the guy shouldn't be charged with murder, fine. The cop was an idiot, in way over his head, in a job he wasn't suited for, and his incompetence cost Rice his life. That's an easy civil lawsuit, but I'm not convinced justice is served by charging someone with murder for what appears to be incompetence, and being placed in a position he was emotionally and professionally incapable of handling.

But I don't get you trying to say this incident was handled correctly in any way. If that's the "right" way, then we've got serious problems in this country with an out of control police force with wildly inappropriate rules of engagement with citizens presumed innocent.
 
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Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

It's not complicated at all. One incident was an active shooter in the process of murdering 12 and injuring 70. The other incident involved no shootings, no one injured, no one killed. In the Aurora incident, the shooter was in a crowded theater in the process of a mass slaughter. In the Rice incident, when the police arrived, he was sitting at a picnic table, alone, with no one in the vicinity, no one nearby dead, or injured. In Aurora, the shooter was inside a building, inside a theater in that building and the police can observe nothing from their cars. In the Rice case he's outside, in a VERY open area, sitting in an open Gazebo, and police can observe all this safely from a long distance away and evaluate the situation, the risk, etc. In Aurora, immediate action was critical because the murders were taking place when they rolled up. In the Rice case, they could take their time and evaluate the situation because no one was shot or injured nor was Rice aiming at or shooting at anyone. He was sitting quietly at a picnic table.

They're as different as two incidents can possibly be and involve a firearm in any way.

Bottom line is if you want to say the guy shouldn't be charged with murder, fine. The cop was an idiot, in way over his head, in a job he wasn't suited for, and his incompetence cost Rice his life. That's an easy civil lawsuit, but I'm not convinced justice is served by charging someone with murder for what appears to be incompetence, and being placed in a position he was emotionally and professionally incapable of handling.

But I don't get you trying to say this incident was handled correctly in any way. If that's the "right" way, then we've got serious problems in this country with an out of control police force with wildly inappropriate rules of engagement with citizens presumed innocent.

How did the event in aurora start? He had to pull the trigger. But police would have been called had he waved a gun around only. Right? Sadly this is something we have to think about now.

Was it wrong for the person to have called 911 on rice?
 
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