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Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Your theory doesn't hold water.
It is the Officer's job to put their selves in dangerous situations to enforce the laws.

I asked for the law that was violated. You haven't provided one.

As a minimum, this statute was violated -

2903.041 Reckless homicide.

(A) No person shall recklessly cause the death of another or the unlawful termination of another's pregnancy.

(B) Whoever violates this section is guilty of reckless homicide, a felony of the third degree.

Effective Date: 09-29-1999

If it's determined that the cops acted recklessly then they're toast.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

If their safety is so key why did they get so close to him?

surprise they didn't fully know where he was at? there are many reasons. still doesn't negate the fact that he was getting up and walking toward them while pulling up his shirt and reaching for the gun.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

As a minimum, this statute was violated -



If it's determined that the cops acted recklessly then they're toast.

prove it. so far there is no evidence that they did.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Police across the nation need to just walk off the job. Period. Drop their issue weapons and badges on their chiefs desks and turn around and walk away.

And maybe they should learn not to lie? The video is irrafutable. Cop shows up and INSTANTLY shoots him dead with zero hesitation. Then he claimed that he told the kid to drop the weapon when its obvious the cop was scared and instantly shot him dead in under a second. Then the cop lied. Why did he lie? Because he knew he did something wrong..
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

You said this: "Lets hope citizens stop calling in complaints about thugs with guns terrorizing people in parks, and lets hope if citizens DO call those complaints in the cops refuse to respond."

Yeah, OK, and if the public objects to police rolling up after a complaint about a person pointing what is likely a fake gun and executing the person before the car fully stops, standing around for 4 minutes watching him die, then police should walk off the job.

The public needs to learn - if you make any suspicious move, the police have a right to kill you. It's all about freedom and liberty, you know. And not questioning the police state's use of deadly force.

Got it.
The public needs to learn...if you are an asshole and walk around the park pointing a gun at people and then when cops respond if you jump up, raise your shirt and reach for said gun, you are likely going to be shot. Yes. HELL yes. GREAT points.

FAMILIES need to learn if you know your precious little asshole has a toy that he has modified to look like a gun because he says he has been bullied and if you know he has been using said toy gun to threaten other people, take the gun and handle your business and dont piss yourself because the cops got called to deal with what THEY could reasonably assume was a deadly situation.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

I don't see why the police didn't stop, say, fifty yards away, and use the bullhorn to tell the kid to drop the gun. It's as if by pulling up right next to him, where he might easily have shot them if he had had a real gun, they were trying to create a pretext for shooting him. I doubt there was the premeditation needed to prove first-degree murder, but it certainly looks like unlawful homicide. I am glad to see the D.A. plans to use a grand jury.

Well... You see.. A long time ago a melee martial arts expert demonstrated to cops that if someone with a knife sprints at you from 20 feet away they can pose a threat. So cops made policy that if someone is threatening and approaches the cop they are allowed to shoot @ 20 feet. So now instead of using it defensively cops walk forward to meet the person at 20 feet and then shoot them to death.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

As a minimum, this statute was violated -



If it's determined that the cops acted recklessly then they're toast.
Cops were called to respond to a park where a kid is ON VIDEO threatening people with what looks very much like a gun. When cops arrive, the kid jumps up, raises his shirt exposing said weapon and reaches for said weapon and is shot.

Thats not reckless. Thats doing their job. You want to get lost in the cute softened picture of the innocent little angel and what turned out to be a toy that his own grandmother stated was altered to look real...be my guest.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

prove it. so far there is no evidence that they did.

Like I said before, proof is for trials where all the evidence can be presented. What's at issue right now is whether a trial is warranted or not and, based on what has thus far been presented, there is absolutely reasonable cause to send this sucker to trial.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

grand jury isn't going to put them for trial what was in the video.

I am not sure what you are saying. According to the article linked to in the OP, Ohio law authorizes private citizens to petition a judge to recommend that a person be indicted for certain crimes. That is what this municipal court judge did, but his power is only advisory. The article says the District Attorney intends to use a grand jury, as his office usually has in cases like this.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

And maybe they should learn not to lie? The video is irrafutable. Cop shows up and INSTANTLY shoots him dead with zero hesitation. Then he claimed that he told the kid to drop the weapon when its obvious the cop was scared and instantly shot him dead in under a second. Then the cop lied. Why did he lie? Because he knew he did something wrong..
I would have shot him too. You tell me you can tell the difference between the gun the kid was holding a real one fast enough not to get yourself killed?
I call BS if you think you can.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

100% wrong. even if I am not a cop I am not going to wait for someone to pull a weapon that is walking toward me and reaching into their pants to pull a gun.

But you can't tell from the video that he reached for the gun, pulled anything out, instead of reaching for his phone or pulling up his pants.

And if you'll kill someone on mere suspicion, I hope you don't have a carry permit. It's why I'm not a big fan - people armed and ready to kill because they think there MIGHT be a threat is not my idea of a good thing.

sure we do. he pulled up his shirt and was reaching for the gun. that is enough right there for the police or any other citizen to react.

The caller said several times it might be fake. I hope you stay away from playgrounds. Kids playing cops and robbers and you might have to take out the whole kindergarten class.

And you know he was reaching for a gun how?

Let's assume you've got a gun in a shoulder holster. Do I get to assume that when you're reaching into your inner jacket pocket you're reaching for a gun and blow you away cause I'm skeered? Or should the standard be you pose an actual threat, pull the gun, threaten me, yell at me, something to indicate your intention is to 1) pull your gun and 2) use it to kill me? Women who carry a gun in their purse. What standard do I use to shoot them - when they put their hand in the purse or when they pull out a gun? Etc.....

in that situation they shouldn't be expected to issue any kind of command. their safety is key.

Why is their safety key, and not the civilians they're job is to protect?

there was no execution (appeal to emotion)

They shot the kid with the intent to kill, then stood around for 4 minutes watching him die. How would an execution be any different?

since they aren't executing people (appeal to emotion) they acted within their right to protect themselves and others from people waving guns in public.

Fake guns, guns that the caller suspected and told 911 she thought were fake.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Cops were called to respond to a park where a kid is ON VIDEO threatening people with what looks very much like a gun. When cops arrive, the kid jumps up, raises his shirt exposing said weapon and reaches for said weapon and is shot.

Thats not reckless. Thats doing their job. You want to get lost in the cute softened picture of the innocent little angel and what turned out to be a toy that his own grandmother stated was altered to look real...be my guest.

I would (obviously) disagree.

When the cops came on scene the kid did not have the weapon exposed and nobody else appeared to be in the immediate vicinity. At that point the cops responsibility was to determine whether or not the kid was the suspect they had been called about. They had the opportunity to exercise a more cautious approach to the situation and chose not to. That, by definition, is "reckless".
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Tamir Rice: judge finds cause for murder charge over police killing of 12-year-old | US news | The Guardian

Just saw this on my local news as well (Channel 12, CBS, Cincinnati)

Judge Ronald Adrine of the Cleveland Municipal Court said there were grounds to prosecute Officer Timothy Loehmann with murder....

I don't know if murder is going to fly but the shooting looked really bad and charges should be brought as well as a massive law suit

Which means the case is in the same place it was.....the county prosecutor's office, where they will continue to examine the evidence, and if determined, convene a grand jury.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Like I said before, proof is for trials where all the evidence can be presented. What's at issue right now is whether a trial is warranted or not and, based on what has thus far been presented, there is absolutely reasonable cause to send this sucker to trial.
Lets say you are in the courtroom...room full of interested parties...jury, family, media...packed house. The attorney mutters something like "**** this" and reaches into his briefcase, pulls out this....

Tamirs-Gun.jpg

And shouts die mother****ers! and points the gun at people in the courtroom. What happens? Be honest.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

I would (obviously) disagree.

When the cops came on scene the kid did not have the weapon exposed and nobody else appeared to be in the immediate vicinity. At that point the cops responsibility was to determine whether or not the kid was the suspect they had been called about. They had the opportunity to exercise a more cautious approach to the situation and chose not to. That, by definition, is "reckless".

The second he jumped up, raised his shirt, and reached for the weapon, he gave the cops every reason to shoot him.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Police across the nation need to just walk off the job. Period. Drop their issue weapons and badges on their chiefs desks and turn around and walk away.

Right because citizens should accept that the police state has the right to kill us and if we protest their use of deadly force they should walk off the job. Freedom and liberty!
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

The second he jumped up, raised his shirt, and reached for the weapon, he gave the cops every reason to shoot him.

Why? A common surrendering tactic is to raise your shirt up so people can see you dont have a weapon. A person is not a threat unless they have their hands on the weapon. When you have your gun trained on them in advance then 0.1 seconds of advantage is all you need.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Lets say you are in the courtroom...room full of interested parties...jury, family, media...packed house. The attorney mutters something like "**** this" and reaches into his briefcase, pulls out this....

View attachment 67185553

And shouts die mother****ers! and points the gun at people in the courtroom. What happens? Be honest.

The attorney should be ventilated immediately. That scenario, however, is vastly different than what the cops were presented with.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

As a minimum, this statute was violated -



If it's determined that the cops acted recklessly then they're toast.
You are reaching for something that does not apply.
That does not supersede the Officer's legal ability to respond to the threat that Tamir's going for the gun was.
At no point was responding with lethal force to that lethal threat reckless.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

The attorney should be ventilated immediately. That scenario, however, is vastly different than what the cops were presented with.
No...its not and you just advocated that a man be killed in cold blood for playing with a toy.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Why? A common surrendering tactic is to raise your shirt up so people can see you dont have a weapon. A person is not a threat unless they have their hands on the weapon. When you have your gun trained on them in advance then 0.1 seconds of advantage is all you need.

Reaching for your gun is a lethal threat.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

I wonder why cops are so gun-ho now days....

When their recruitment ads look like they are trying to recruit people who are too scared to join the military but still get to shoot stuff.



Join your local police army today! And maybe someone will give you an excuse to legally shoot them.

Lol they even have a little warhawk on their badge! lololol
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

I would have shot him too. You tell me you can tell the difference between the gun the kid was holding a real one fast enough not to get yourself killed?
I call BS if you think you can.

He wasn't holding any gun. There was no chance for the police to see if it was real because he never actually pulled the gun out. He was shot.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

I would (obviously) disagree.

When the cops came on scene the kid did not have the weapon exposed and nobody else appeared to be in the immediate vicinity. At that point the cops responsibility was to determine whether or not the kid was the suspect they had been called about. They had the opportunity to exercise a more cautious approach to the situation and chose not to. That, by definition, is "reckless".

The rec center has been, and still is, a frequent location of violent assaults, many with guns. Thinking that the entirely of what transpired is on the video that started with the car on scene and ended with the shot is preposterous.
 
Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

Why? A common surrendering tactic is to raise your shirt up so people can see you dont have a weapon. A person is not a threat unless they have their hands on the weapon. When you have your gun trained on them in advance then 0.1 seconds of advantage is all you need.
:lamo

You think a common technique to surrender is to jump up, raise your shirt and reach for what you have been presenting as a real gun for the last half hour?

Lord dood...never go outside.
 
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