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Thread: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Weeding out and charging with murder are two different things.
    BINGO!

    I would say this video is potentially good evidence for negligence, and certainly enough to disqualify the shooter from this line of work. But murder is a VERY serious charge that is MUCH different than what the actual charge that might be considered for this case.
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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Not kidding at all.
    OK, then no one needs to take the comparison seriously. Simple enough!

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    OK, then no one needs to take the comparison seriously. Simple enough!
    Too complicated for ya?

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Too complicated for ya?
    It's not complicated at all. One incident was an active shooter in the process of murdering 12 and injuring 70. The other incident involved no shootings, no one injured, no one killed. In the Aurora incident, the shooter was in a crowded theater in the process of a mass slaughter. In the Rice incident, when the police arrived, he was sitting at a picnic table, alone, with no one in the vicinity, no one nearby dead, or injured. In Aurora, the shooter was inside a building, inside a theater in that building and the police can observe nothing from their cars. In the Rice case he's outside, in a VERY open area, sitting in an open Gazebo, and police can observe all this safely from a long distance away and evaluate the situation, the risk, etc. In Aurora, immediate action was critical because the murders were taking place when they rolled up. In the Rice case, they could take their time and evaluate the situation because no one was shot or injured nor was Rice aiming at or shooting at anyone. He was sitting quietly at a picnic table.

    They're as different as two incidents can possibly be and involve a firearm in any way.

    Bottom line is if you want to say the guy shouldn't be charged with murder, fine. The cop was an idiot, in way over his head, in a job he wasn't suited for, and his incompetence cost Rice his life. That's an easy civil lawsuit, but I'm not convinced justice is served by charging someone with murder for what appears to be incompetence, and being placed in a position he was emotionally and professionally incapable of handling.

    But I don't get you trying to say this incident was handled correctly in any way. If that's the "right" way, then we've got serious problems in this country with an out of control police force with wildly inappropriate rules of engagement with citizens presumed innocent.
    Last edited by JasperL; 06-15-15 at 11:23 AM.

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    Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    It's not complicated at all. One incident was an active shooter in the process of murdering 12 and injuring 70. The other incident involved no shootings, no one injured, no one killed. In the Aurora incident, the shooter was in a crowded theater in the process of a mass slaughter. In the Rice incident, when the police arrived, he was sitting at a picnic table, alone, with no one in the vicinity, no one nearby dead, or injured. In Aurora, the shooter was inside a building, inside a theater in that building and the police can observe nothing from their cars. In the Rice case he's outside, in a VERY open area, sitting in an open Gazebo, and police can observe all this safely from a long distance away and evaluate the situation, the risk, etc. In Aurora, immediate action was critical because the murders were taking place when they rolled up. In the Rice case, they could take their time and evaluate the situation because no one was shot or injured nor was Rice aiming at or shooting at anyone. He was sitting quietly at a picnic table.

    They're as different as two incidents can possibly be and involve a firearm in any way.

    Bottom line is if you want to say the guy shouldn't be charged with murder, fine. The cop was an idiot, in way over his head, in a job he wasn't suited for, and his incompetence cost Rice his life. That's an easy civil lawsuit, but I'm not convinced justice is served by charging someone with murder for what appears to be incompetence, and being placed in a position he was emotionally and professionally incapable of handling.

    But I don't get you trying to say this incident was handled correctly in any way. If that's the "right" way, then we've got serious problems in this country with an out of control police force with wildly inappropriate rules of engagement with citizens presumed innocent.
    How did the event in aurora start? He had to pull the trigger. But police would have been called had he waved a gun around only. Right? Sadly this is something we have to think about now.

    Was it wrong for the person to have called 911 on rice?
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    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    How did the event in aurora start? He had to pull the trigger. But police would have been called had he waved a gun around only. Right? Sadly this is something we have to think about now.

    Was it wrong for the person to have called 911 on rice?
    The incident in Aurora started with the killer setting off a tear gas grenade and opening fire into a crowded theater. I don't know why the apologist keep making irrelevant comparisons.

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    Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    The incident in Aurora started with the killer setting off a tear gas grenade and opening fire into a crowded theater. I don't know why the apologist keep making irrelevant comparisons.
    Did rice deserve to have the police called on him?

    Oh

    And evidence he was shot for being black?
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    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    Did rice deserve to have the police called on him?
    Nope. Rice was a kid playing with a toy.

    Oh

    And evidence he was shot for being black?
    Zero evidence that this was race related.

    BUT, do to the difference in behavior when police face someone black and someone of another race, we can gather that race was a factor in why Rice was shot when he was not doing anything violent.
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    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    How did the event in aurora start? He had to pull the trigger. But police would have been called had he waved a gun around only. Right? Sadly this is something we have to think about now.

    Was it wrong for the person to have called 911 on rice?
    No, the caller did fine, he even repeatedly told them the gun was likely or possibly fake.

    And in Aurora, the shooter didn't just wave a gun around - he took the gun out and started killing people. By the time police were called, he was already shooting and people were already dead. The events are just completely different in every possible way. Not sure what else to say. They both involved firearms. If the idea is any call involving a firearm SHOULD BE treated as a potential mass murder on a scale we only see once every few years, then I think that idea is nuts, ridiculous, especially now that we got open carry idiots carrying ARs over their shoulder in Target etc.



    Police respond to a 911 call about these idiots like Aurora? Why not? They look scary to me - all it takes is one second and they're ready for mass slaughter in the Target!

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I think you are missing the point. Look at what you said at the end: "we'd all be fine with police taking him out at the earliest opportunity."

    What if he were a shooter who hadn't fired the first shot yet? He had all intentions? I'm saying that to act as if the police response was completely "unreasonable" because he was a 12 year old with a BB gun isn't exactly true. He was a 12 year old with a BB gun that looked VERY much like a firearm.



    So it really isn't about the fact that he didn't have a firearm. He had the above and the above looked real. There are several facts we need to know before we can call this criminal and not negligence.

    1) What did dispatch report?

    2) What did rice do when police drove up?

    3) Did the officer give commands that rice disobeyed?

    4) Was the REAL looking BB gun visible to the officers?
    The police never had the opportunity to see if the gun were fake or real. Check the video. They could not have seen the entire toy.

    This meme about the cops seeing a gun and being scared has got to stop. Rice never pulled the gun out! Watch the video!!
    A man without fear is a fool, a man that succumbs to his fear is a coward and a brave man acknowledges fear yet presses on.
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