Page 29 of 40 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast
Results 281 to 290 of 398

Thread: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

  1. #281
    Advisor Nursmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Seen
    05-18-17 @ 12:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    396

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    From watching the video and knowing people's positions:

    How the hell can you form an opinion on this? This video was not at an angle to REALLY form an opinion. Not an intelligent one. There are a bunch of factors in this, including officer response.

    Now. I have a few theories. Did the officers role up thinking it was a kid playing with a BB gun and get surprised that it looked real and panic? That could account for the close role up and ensuing stupidity.

    I don't see this as murder. Not from the video. I do see evidence of poor reaction which is plenty of evidence for a multi million dollar lawsuit. And both these guys have a child's blood on their conscious. I have a few lingering questions like did they try and cover it up? If so...that deserves jail time. Who called 911 and what did they report? What was said on dispatch? That kind of thing. There are a few FACTS I want. But this video is evidence that a kid died and that the 2 cops were dumb enough to get close....it doesn't tell us why and certainly doesn't give a clear picture on what happened.
    My theory is...this was the first call of this type for the shooting officer. The department he came from was a affluent suburb. He was as cop for less than a year. I think the 911 call was not relayed completely and hyped the cop up. He appeared to me that he was panicking. There is a lot of info on this case...here is the 911 call:

    LISTEN | 911 caller reports Tamir Rice incident

    One of the problems here...no one wants to work in Cleveland...and if they do...the first opening in a suburb and they are gone. The City must make a decision between being short staffed or hiring a pulse and a heart beat. Sometimes bad hires are made under desperation.

  2. #282
    Sage
    Gaius46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    Today @ 05:28 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    7,517

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    As Justice Scalia put in in Williams, the case I cited, the grand jury is an accusatory body, not an adjudicatory one. The grand jury's purpose is to assess whether there is adequate basis for bringing a criminal charge.



    Yes, that's how grand juries have operated for centuries, as Justice Scalia discussed in the passage I quoted. What of it?



    That's not entirely accurate. A grand jury cannot compel witnesses to appear or evidence to be produced, but it can appeal to the court to have those things done.

    "The [grand jury has] power to investigate criminal wrongdoing . . . Unlike a court, whose jurisdiction is predicated upon a specific case or controversy, the grand jury can investigate merely on suspicion that the law is being violated, or even because it wants assurance that it is not. It need not identify the offender it suspects, or even the precise nature of the offense it is investigating. The grand jury requires no authorization from its constituting court to initiate an investigation."



    Yes, that is how grand juries operate. What of it?



    The duty of the prosecution is to see that justice is done. It would be unethical of any prosecutor to misuse a grand jury to protect a person he believes has committed a serious crime by purposely withholding relevant evidence of that crime. And as I noted, the grand jury has broad power, exercised through the court, to compel the appearance of witnesses and the production of evidence. If the grand jury sensed the prosecution was covering up evidence to shield the person suspected, it could force that evidence to be presented to it.

    There was also a lot of hostility toward the use of a grand jury in the Ferguson case, and very little evidence that the people hostile to it gave a damn about the fact indictment by a grand jury for serious crimes is a hallowed constitutional right. Not one in a thousand of them knows the Supreme Court has never applied that right to the states--they just don't give a damn about constitutional rights in general.
    Yes I am aware of what the grand jury's purpose, at least on paper, is.

    The basic problem is a lack of transparency coupled with a inherent conflict of interest given that the prosecutors and police generally work together. And the mere fact that that's the way GJ have always operated doesn't make it correct in general or in specific situations. Until about 10-15 years ago in NYC police crimes were prosecuted by a bureau of the State Attorney General's office and not local DAs specifically because of concerns of impartiality on the part of the DA. I think that initially came about from the Knapp Commission hearings in the early 70s but don't remember for sure.

    IS that to say that all DAs are going to throw cases involving police? Of course not. Mosby in Baltimore and Brandenburg in Albuquerque are proof otherwise but we are in a position where we have to trust public officials to do the right thing in a situation where, frankly, there is incentive to not.

    On GJ powers - yes the Grand Jury has broad subpeona powers but who actually exercises those powers? The jurors themselves or the prosecutor working with them?
    Last edited by Gaius46; 06-13-15 at 06:26 AM.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  3. #283
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,872

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    My theory is...this was the first call of this type for the shooting officer. The department he came from was a affluent suburb. He was as cop for less than a year. I think the 911 call was not relayed completely and hyped the cop up. He appeared to me that he was panicking. There is a lot of info on this case...here is the 911 call:

    LISTEN | 911 caller reports Tamir Rice incident

    One of the problems here...no one wants to work in Cleveland...and if they do...the first opening in a suburb and they are gone. The City must make a decision between being short staffed or hiring a pulse and a heart beat. Sometimes bad hires are made under desperation.
    Sucks. I get it. I hate big cities too. I grew up small town. But I have read multiple times he was a rookie. And that is absolutely a factor. I just don't think this video itself is good enough to get a clear view of the incident. Not even the officers reaction.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  4. #284
    Sage
    Excon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 01:06 PM
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    31,002

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I work with images all day long so I'm not speaking from any kind of ignorance when it comes to these things.
    Further more, what you attribute to your self isn't apparent as the video was not being reviewed in a vacuum.





    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I just don't think this video itself is good enough to get a clear view of the incident.
    While it is not absolutely clear, it is not like the video is being reviewed in a vacuum.

    Creating theories and speculating outside of what is known would be wrong, but in this case there are things that can be intelligently assumed from the available information.
    We can assume it shows a twelve year old boy named Tamir Rice who was in possession of a toy gun.
    Based on the fact that he had this gun and reports of pointing, we can assume that is actually what he was doing when we see him in the video pointing what appears to be a gun. (It is not like we can postulate that it wasn't a gun he was pointing. That would be absurd)

    We can also assume that what looks like a gun in the large image I linked earlier, is actually the gun he had in his possession, which would also be conformation of what the Officer supposedly stated.
    So yeah, there are some things that can be assumed that are pretty much accurate depictions and confirmations.



    Previously provided Huff post image.
    2000x1000
    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2326464/im...E-facebook.jpg
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

  5. #285
    Advisor Nursmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Seen
    05-18-17 @ 12:30 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    396

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    [QUOTE=stonewall50;1064713643][QUOTE=Nursmate;1064713625]
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post

    I don't know the kids backstory. Is there a good place to learn that?
    Here are a couple of good articles. Tamir did not have a criminal or juvenille record. The shooting officer's record was actually worse as far as job performance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice
    Tamir Rice's mother, grandmother, reflect on boy's life, death (videos) | cleveland.com

    As far as blame, I tend to lean towards his Mother...who should be accountable for a 12 year old at all times. The media here was blasted for drudging up Tamir's parents background because they used this information to connect a violent past. I personally, would dry up and die if my son was killed over this and I was not there to protect him. She was home and she should have been aware of what he was doing. I work with a distant relative of Tamir's Mom, and according to her...this woman should have never been a Mother. All she is worried about right now is getting paid. She has sued for Millions from a city who can't even afford snow removal. Settling a lawsuit would be the last thing I would worry about during the grieving process.

  6. #286
    Sage

    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    Out West
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:06 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    13,480
    Blog Entries
    1

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    All she is worried about right now is getting paid. She has sued for Millions from a city who can't even afford snow removal. Settling a lawsuit would be the last thing I would worry about during the grieving process.
    Maybe she's the one who called the police knowing this would happen?

  7. #287
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,872

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I work with images all day long so I'm not speaking from any kind of ignorance when it comes to these things. Hell, I've actually given what could be considered classes on image quality in this very forum. Any person who tries to tell you that the sheer number of artifacts, blurriness and jaggies allow for anything other than interpretation of what is going on is lying to you.
    Distance and lack of sound. Biggest factors in why this video is not good enough to make a solid opinion. And since I can't enhance anything...I am going off what I can actually see.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  8. #288
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,872

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Further more, what you attribute to your self isn't apparent as the video was not being reviewed in a vacuum.






    While it is not absolutely clear, it is not like the video is being reviewed in a vacuum.

    Creating theories and speculating outside of what is known would be wrong, but in this case there are things that can be intelligently assumed from the available information.
    We can assume it shows a twelve year old boy named Tamir Rice who was in possession of a toy gun.
    Based on the fact that he had this gun and reports of pointing, we can assume that is actually what he was doing when we see him in the video pointing what appears to be a gun. (It is not like we can postulate that it wasn't a gun he was pointing. That would be absurd)

    We can also assume that what looks like a gun in the large image I linked earlier, is actually the gun he had in his possession, which would also be conformation of what the Officer supposedly stated.
    So yeah, there are some things that can be assumed that are pretty much accurate depictions and confirmations.



    Previously provided Huff post image.
    2000x1000
    http://i.huffpost.com/gen/2326464/im...E-facebook.jpg
    Doesn't really give me a picture. And the other evidence is important. I feel like I read about this crying at the firing line? Sounds to me like the department didn't do a good eval before hiring.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  9. #289
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,872

    Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-ol...

    [QUOTE=Nursmate;1064715613][QUOTE=stonewall50;1064713643]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post

    Here are a couple of good articles. Tamir did not have a criminal or juvenille record. The shooting officer's record was actually worse as far as job performance.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Tamir_Rice
    Tamir Rice's mother, grandmother, reflect on boy's life, death (videos) | cleveland.com

    As far as blame, I tend to lean towards his Mother...who should be accountable for a 12 year old at all times. The media here was blasted for drudging up Tamir's parents background because they used this information to connect a violent past. I personally, would dry up and die if my son was killed over this and I was not there to protect him. She was home and she should have been aware of what he was doing. I work with a distant relative of Tamir's Mom, and according to her...this woman should have never been a Mother. All she is worried about right now is getting paid. She has sued for Millions from a city who can't even afford snow removal. Settling a lawsuit would be the last thing I would worry about during the grieving process.
    I'm not shocked by that, but then when I was 12 I was out with a BB and pellet gun shooting squirrels and birds and whatever else a 12 year old with a BB gun might think to shoot. And an old toilet that was left out...but that was with a sling shot.

    My parents taught me well though. And I wasn't disrespectful to police. And I wasn't ever the one to be reaching for a gun around them. But then I had hunted and carried REAL guns around cops (with supervision).
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  10. #290
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Today @ 11:00 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    22,872

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Maybe she's the one who called the police knowing this would happen?
    You got evidence of this?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

Page 29 of 40 FirstFirst ... 19272829303139 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •