Page 28 of 40 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast
Results 271 to 280 of 398

Thread: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

  1. #271
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,270

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Iduring a grand jury t's just the prosecutor presenting evidence in front of a jury and the procedure is secret. So a cop friendly prosecutor can just flub the case and call it a day.
    I don't know what a "cop-friendly" prosecutor is, but a prosecutor, just like any other lawyer, can get disciplined for violating his professional responsibility. As I recall, the district attorney in the case involving the lacrosse players at Duke was disbarred for that reason. Like the disgraceful woman prosecutor in the Baltimore case recently, he was grossly overcharging and otherwise grandstanding out of personal ambition, and the integrity of the law be damned.

    I also don't know how a D.A. would "flub" a grand jury proceeding. If there were reason to believe the police had purposely made a slipshod investigation to cover up misconduct, and the district attorney had conspired in it, the state attorney general's office could make its own investigation, and even the U.S. Justice Dept. might get involved. Police officials who pull stunts like that are asking to end up in prison.

  2. #272
    Sage
    Montecresto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Last Seen
    03-13-16 @ 09:59 PM
    Lean
    Undisclosed
    Posts
    24,561

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    [QUOTE=Nursmate;1064712979][QUOTE=

    Oh dear. See this has become a major problem. Surely the GJ will be privy to this info. Does it surprise you that the DP resident cops continue to defend all manor of police excess. I really don't think they believe cops can ever fail on the job, EVER!
    Killing one person is murder, killing 100,000 is foreign policy

  3. #273
    Sage
    Gaius46's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    New York
    Last Seen
    01-18-17 @ 10:58 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian
    Posts
    6,869

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    I don't know what a "cop-friendly" prosecutor is, but a prosecutor, just like any other lawyer, can get disciplined for violating his professional responsibility. As I recall, the district attorney in the case involving the lacrosse players at Duke was disbarred for that reason. Like the disgraceful woman prosecutor in the Baltimore case recently, he was grossly overcharging and otherwise grandstanding out of personal ambition, and the integrity of the law be damned.

    I also don't know how a D.A. would "flub" a grand jury proceeding. If there were reason to believe the police had purposely made a slipshod investigation to cover up misconduct, and the district attorney had conspired in it, the state attorney general's office could make its own investigation, and even the U.S. Justice Dept. might get involved. Police officials who pull stunts like that are asking to end up in prison.

    You aren't this naive.

    Grand Jury's are prosecution tools. The prosecutor decides what they see and no one is there to challenge anything the prosecutor says. It isn't a finder of fact. It simply decides whether there cause to proceed with a trial. And that is based completely in what the prosecutor presents.

    The proceedings further are secret. Virtually no on sees what goes on.

    If a prosecutor wants an indictment he'll probably get it. Conversely if he doesn't want one he probably won't.
    Don't be a grammar nazi - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations, Book 1 #7

  4. #274
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,270

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    While I commend your faith in the legal system, I don't share your sunny view of the world because of how many people have been released after spending 20+ years in prisons thanks to grand juries, corrupt police departments and biased judges.
    If I have a positive view, it is not because I am naive. As a lawyer, I know enough about the legal system not to be gulled by propaganda designed to paint the United States out as an awful place whose basic institutions are rotten to the core, and where you have to be rich, white, etc. to get a fair deal. I got sick and tired many years ago of hearing that garbage from malcontents who resent this country--but not so much that they don't choose to live here.

    Any system of criminal justice, however good, will inevitably imprison some innocent people. Some of those innocent people will inevitably serve long terms. But it is the very fact instances of that are so rare that they become such sensational stories when they do come to light. Most people jailed for crimes got what they deserved--and a great many who are in fact guilty go free because it was not possible to prove they were also legally guilty. Proving crimes in court is an elaborate process in which a great many things must be done just right, and everything is purposely weighted in favor of the defendant.

    Corrupt police departments exist mostly in detective novels and old movies. With the federal government as involved in state and local affairs as it is today, there is far less of that kind of thing, and any police chief who scoffs at the law in any way is not likely to get away with it for long. Reporters love to expose misconduct like that. Any any private citizen who knows about it can report it to the state attorney general's office or the nearest U.S. Attorney's office. Both the L.A.P.D. and the L.A. Sheriff's Dept. have more than once been the subject of Justice Dept. investigations and oversight.

    Judges have their own code of professional responsibility. Here in California there is a Code of Judicial Ethics, and the authorities who enforce it take it very seriously. It requires a judge who is biased in a case to disqualify himself. I think accusations of bias often come from lawyers who lost the case by not handling it well or by doing things that antagonized the judge. Even when antagonized, though, trial judges have to be pretty impartial. Any of them who rules arbitrarily is asking to get overturned on appeal--something trial judges would rather avoid.
    Last edited by matchlight; 06-12-15 at 08:04 PM.

  5. #275
    warrior of the wetlands
    TurtleDude's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Ohio
    Last Seen
    Today @ 01:03 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Libertarian - Right
    Posts
    160,650

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by matchlight View Post
    If I have a positive view, it is not because I am naive. As a lawyer, I know enough about the legal system not to be gulled by propaganda designed to paint the United States out as an awful place whose basic institutions are rotten to the core, and where you have to be rich, white, etc. to get a fair deal. I got sick and tired many years ago of hearing that garbage from malcontents who resent this country--but not so much that they don't choose to live here.

    Any system of criminal justice, however good, will inevitably imprison some innocent people. Some of those innocent people will inevitably serve long terms. But it is the very fact instances of that are so rare that they become such sensational stories when they do come to light. Most people jailed for crimes got what they deserved--and a great many who are in fact guilty go free because it was not possible to prove they were also legally guilty. Proving crimes in court is an elaborate process in which a great many things must be done just right, and everything is purposely weighted in favor of the defendant.

    Corrupt police departments exist mostly in detective novels and old movies. With the federal government as involved in state and local affairs as it is today, there is far less of that kind of thing, and any police chief who scoffs at the law in any way is not likely to get away with it for long. Reporters love to expose misconduct like that. Any any private citizen who knows about it can report it to the state attorney general's office or the nearest U.S. Attorney's office. Both the L.A.P.D. and the L.A. Sheriff's Dept. have more than once been the subject of Justice Dept. investigations and oversight.

    Judges have their own code of professional responsibility. Here in California there is a Code of Judicial Ethics, and the authorities who enforce it take it very seriously. It requires a judge who is biased in a case to disqualify himself. I think accusations of bias often come from lawyers who lost the case by not handling it well or by doing things that antagonized the judge. Even when antagonized, though, trial judges have to be pretty impartial. Any of them who rules arbitrarily is asking to get overturned on appeal--something trial judges would rather avoid.
    I concur with this assessment
    Quote Originally Posted by EarlzP View Post
    Why would you not want to register your weapon?
    Quote Originally Posted by Celebrity View Post
    , as long as you can own one or fewer guns, your right to bear a firearm is not being infringed upon.

  6. #276
    Temp Suspended
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Location
    Los Angeles area
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 02:05 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    8,270

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Gaius46 View Post
    Grand Jury's are prosecution tools.
    As Justice Scalia put in in Williams, the case I cited, the grand jury is an accusatory body, not an adjudicatory one. The grand jury's purpose is to assess whether there is adequate basis for bringing a criminal charge.

    and no one is there to challenge anything the prosecutor says.
    Yes, that's how grand juries have operated for centuries, as Justice Scalia discussed in the passage I quoted. What of it?

    The prosecutor decides what they see . . . It isn't a finder of fact. It simply decides whether there cause to proceed with a trial. And that is based completely in what the prosecutor presents.
    That's not entirely accurate. A grand jury cannot compel witnesses to appear or evidence to be produced, but it can appeal to the court to have those things done.

    "The [grand jury has] power to investigate criminal wrongdoing . . . Unlike a court, whose jurisdiction is predicated upon a specific case or controversy, the grand jury can investigate merely on suspicion that the law is being violated, or even because it wants assurance that it is not. It need not identify the offender it suspects, or even the precise nature of the offense it is investigating. The grand jury requires no authorization from its constituting court to initiate an investigation."

    The proceedings further are secret. Virtually no on sees what goes on.
    Yes, that is how grand juries operate. What of it?

    If a prosecutor wants an indictment he'll probably get it. Conversely if he doesn't want one he probably won't.
    The duty of the prosecution is to see that justice is done. It would be unethical of any prosecutor to misuse a grand jury to protect a person he believes has committed a serious crime by purposely withholding relevant evidence of that crime. And as I noted, the grand jury has broad power, exercised through the court, to compel the appearance of witnesses and the production of evidence. If the grand jury sensed the prosecution was covering up evidence to shield the person suspected, it could force that evidence to be presented to it.

    There was also a lot of hostility toward the use of a grand jury in the Ferguson case, and very little evidence that the people hostile to it gave a damn about the fact indictment by a grand jury for serious crimes is a hallowed constitutional right. Not one in a thousand of them knows the Supreme Court has never applied that right to the states--they just don't give a damn about constitutional rights in general.
    Last edited by matchlight; 06-12-15 at 09:48 PM.

  7. #277
    Sage
    VanceMack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Last Seen
    Today @ 03:14 AM
    Gender
    Lean
    Independent
    Posts
    47,214

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    [QUOTE=Montecresto;1064713016][QUOTE=Nursmate;1064712979][QUOTE=

    Oh dear. See this has become a major problem. Surely the GJ will be privy to this info. Does it surprise you that the DP resident cops continue to defend all manor of police excess. I really don't think they believe cops can ever fail on the job, EVER![/QUOTE]Did his training incident cause the young asshole to carry a weapon and threaten and intimidate people at school? Did the officers problems with his girlfriend from several months ago cause the little thug to walk up and down the sidewalk at a public park threatening people with a weapon? Did his negative assessment from a PD cause Rice to jump up, lift his shirt and reach for the weapon he had been seen on video threatening others with?

  8. #278
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,094

    Re: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:

    From watching the video and knowing people's positions:

    How the hell can you form an opinion on this? This video was not at an angle to REALLY form an opinion. Not an intelligent one. There are a bunch of factors in this, including officer response.

    Now. I have a few theories. Did the officers role up thinking it was a kid playing with a BB gun and get surprised that it looked real and panic? That could account for the close role up and ensuing stupidity.

    I don't see this as murder. Not from the video. I do see evidence of poor reaction which is plenty of evidence for a multi million dollar lawsuit. And both these guys have a child's blood on their conscious. I have a few lingering questions like did they try and cover it up? If so...that deserves jail time. Who called 911 and what did they report? What was said on dispatch? That kind of thing. There are a few FACTS I want. But this video is evidence that a kid died and that the 2 cops were dumb enough to get close....it doesn't tell us why and certainly doesn't give a clear picture on what happened.
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

  9. #279
    Advisor Nursmate's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Last Seen
    12-09-16 @ 10:41 PM
    Gender
    Lean
    Centrist
    Posts
    396

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    [QUOTE=VanceMack;1064713590][QUOTE=Montecresto;1064713016]
    Quote Originally Posted by Nursmate View Post
    Did his training incident cause the young asshole to carry a weapon and threaten and intimidate people at school? Did the officers problems with his girlfriend from several months ago cause the little thug to walk up and down the sidewalk at a public park threatening people with a weapon? Did his negative assessment from a PD cause Rice to jump up, lift his shirt and reach for the weapon he had been seen on video threatening others with?
    No..but we can't have officers crying during their training either...this should have been a red flag for anyone who works. I am not allowed as a nurse to burst into tears when I am learning a skill, nor am I allowed to let my personal life interfere with my job. If I am incompetent, I am gone. Why is this any different? BTW....Tamir Rice was 12 years old with a no criminal record and a stellar school record. He was not taught any better. His parents are to blame for this one as well. They are both idiots.

  10. #280
    Sage
    blackjack50's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Florida
    Last Seen
    Yesterday @ 10:36 PM
    Lean
    Conservative
    Posts
    21,094

    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    [QUOTE=Nursmate;1064713625][QUOTE=VanceMack;1064713590]
    Quote Originally Posted by Montecresto View Post

    No..but we can't have officers crying during their training either...this should have been a red flag for anyone who works. I am not allowed as a nurse to burst into tears when I am learning a skill, nor am I allowed to let my personal life interfere with my job. If I am incompetent, I am gone. Why is this any different? BTW....Tamir Rice was 12 years old with a no criminal record and a stellar school record. He was not taught any better. His parents are to blame for this one as well. They are both idiots.
    I don't know the kids backstory. Is there a good place to learn that?
    The Crowd is not the sum of its parts.

Page 28 of 40 FirstFirst ... 18262728293038 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •