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Thread: Tamir Rice:Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing 12 year-old[W:262]

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Lutherf View Post
    If the cops are going to claim self defense then they will need to prove that they had no way to escape the danger presented by Mr. Rice except by using deadly force. That's going to be a mighty tough hill to climb when they knowingly and willfully put themselves in such a position.
    That doesn't apply to the police. They have the responsibility to use deadly force to prevent harm to themselves or others.

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    I dont get why all these cops just let the shot person lay there and bleed out. They dont even attempt to staunch the wounds and put pressure or do cpr if there is no breathing or heartbeat. Its like they have absolutely zero empathy. If I was a cop and some criminal pointed a gun at me, and I had to shoot him, i would STILL tend to their wounds after i removed the weapon. But these cops just stand around and let the people bleed out. Pretty much confirming their disregard.
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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Samhain View Post
    That doesn't apply to the police. They have the responsibility to use deadly force to prevent harm to themselves or others.
    That's not true. Cops have to abide by the same rules everyone else does and their use of force has to meet the same standards as a civilian. Cops have arrest and apprehension privileges that civilians do not so there is more flexibility in scenarios where they might be required to use force but they are not exempt from the law.

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    sure you can. you can see him pull up his shirt and reach for his belt.
    You attempting to pull a gun in your pants out is considered a threat. there is no might about it.
    For his belt? If so that's not a threat... That's my point. If you watch the longer video, I can't tell the difference between him reaching for his gun and when he reached for his PHONE.

    might be fake is irrelevant and the police can't go on might. they have to take the call at face value. there is a guy in the park pointing a gun in different directions.
    and now the strawman occurs. way to make an invalid point.
    At face value means the caller repeatedly said the gun is possibly/likely fake. There were not shots fired, no reports of assault, no reports of rape or murder. Someone waiving what is possibly/probably a fake gun was the call.

    The kindergarten comment was sarcasm, as you know. The sideways point is kids point fake guns at other people all the time, from a very young age. It's not a good idea and probably frowned upon these days, but it's not a capital offense.

    You can see it in the video him reaching for his belt.
    Belt? Or pocket? Pulling up his drawers? Reaching for the gun to show them it's fake? We don't know, and the police didn't have time to do anything but shoot and kill him.
    again your strawmans and stacked hypotheticals don't hold up. you can't shot me for just having a gun in a holster. I have to be showing some kind of threat.
    IE if we are arguing and I reach into my jacket and you see it then yes.
    What threat did the kid communicate to the cops that is more serious than you reaching inside your jacket? If the cops roll up on you and you reach for your ID, then they should, according to your theory, shoot you in the chest and kill you.

    this kid was pulling the gun and pointing it in random directions that can be seeing in the video.
    But he'd been sitting at the table for several minutes, and the cops didn't review the video, so didn't see any of that. They had a report that said he was pointing what is probably/possibly a fake gun.

    they were protecting the other people in the park from someone randomly pointing a gun at them.
    There was no one nearby when they killed Rice, he was pointing at no one when he was killed.

    And I thought you said the police's own safety was key. Now it's bystanders? OK, but what threat did he pose at that moment to anyone?

    prove they shot him with the intent to kill you bias is getting in the way of reason and logic. they didn't stand around 4 minutes.
    they called in an ambulance and he died in the hospital from the wound.
    Of course they shot with the intent to kill. That's what they're trained to do.

    The reports are they administered no first aid, no CPR. That didn't happen until the FBI agent arrived, who did both, before the ambulance arrived. They did wrestle his distraught sister to the ground and put her in handcuffs, though!

    the police can't take that on her word. nor should they. it wasn't a fake gun it was a bb gun. while not life threatening can still cause injury to other people if they are shot with it.
    the fact is they can't take someone's word that it is a fake gun.
    No, but if they suspect it's fake it absolutely changes the acceptable options. You're demanding they use no common sense and treat all threats the same.

    Call about multiple gunshots, person down feared dead, suspect was last seen at so and so park is just NOT THE SAME AS "hey, there's this person waving around a gun, I think it might be fake, but he's scaring people." Those are not equivalent situations and treating them as such is a failure of their duty.

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by dirtpoorchris View Post
    I dont get why all these cops just let the shot person lay there and bleed out. They dont even attempt to staunch the wounds and put pressure or do cpr if there is no breathing or heartbeat. Its like they have absolutely zero empathy. If I was a cop and some criminal pointed a gun at me, and I had to shoot him, i would STILL tend to their wounds after i removed the weapon. But these cops just stand around and let the people bleed out. Pretty much confirming their disregard.
    Cops get a thrill from watching children bleed to death on the floor.

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by stonewall50 View Post
    I'm wondering why the guy shot a kid. I can't really open it. Tapatalk is a whore sometimes. I mean...was he just being a one bullet Barney dumb ass?
    If the cop driver had just stayed on the road instead of pulling up within feet of the kid and both jumping out like Rambo, my bet is he would still be alive right now.
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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by reinoe View Post
    Cops get a thrill from watching children bleed to death on the floor.
    This is a ridiculous lie. Stop it. It's enough that we have to deal with the bull**** claims and absurd lies from those who will defend police officers no matter what.
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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post

    The reports are they administered no first aid, no CPR. That didn't happen until the FBI agent arrived, who did both, before the ambulance arrived. They did wrestle his distraught sister to the ground and put her in handcuffs, though!
    .
    Yep. Those cops made her watch her brother bleed to death and ensure that she couldn't render medical aid.

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    This is a ridiculous lie. Stop it. It's enough that we have to deal with the bull**** claims and absurd lies from those who will defend police officers no matter what.
    Why did the cops mount the curb and drive up to the child if not to ensure the bullets didn't miss?

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    Re: Tamir Rice: Judge finds cause for Murder charge over police killing of 12 year-o

    Quote Originally Posted by CRUE CAB View Post
    Good luck fighting off the criminals.
    If the cops on the job now are such whiney pansies that they'll walk off it because citizens who pay their salaries and who they are sworn to serve complain about the use of deadly force, good riddance to them all. They are clearly in the wrong profession and have the attitude we owe them gratitude and not extreme skepticism when they kill unarmed citizens.

    I don't believe that, however. What these incidents do is give the good cops a bad name, especially when the actions are defended as appropriate.

    I can understand there being legitimate disagreement about whether or not a murder charge is appropriate. I suspect the officer was trying to do a good job and made a tragic mistake in the blink of an eye. The reason I support a trial is that's the standard that would apply if that kid shot someone - we wouldn't be giving him the benefit of the doubt if the victim was a white man with a carry permit reaching for his wallet.

    But what I can't understand is pretending that this officer did his job well, or handled the situation appropriately.

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