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Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

I can tell you that I have never personally felt slighted when looking for a job, nor do I know of anyone who was not hired because they were of child-bearing age. Not saying it's never happened, but personally -- nor through the news cycle -- have I ever heard of a case (or do not recall) in Canada where a woman was not hired for a job because she could potentially have a child. Heck my workplace just hired a woman who was pregnant, because she was the best candidate (like it should be!). As I said before, we have strong laws against such things, and a business is taking a great risk if they choose to practice such misogyny.

On another note, I failed to mention that here in Canada, there is a guaranteed year of mat leave. However, if the father chooses to take some time off, he can. For instance, the woman could take 8 months and the man 4.

...simply on a realistic note, I have a hard time imagining the positions where the best person for the job can be someone who isn't going to be doing it for the next year.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Ready for Warren Becomes Ready to Fight and Backs Bernie Sanders | The Nation

And the momentum for Bernie keeps growing.

The big group that tried to draft elizabeth warren is now thrown their lot in with sanders.

Right on Bernie!

Yes, he corralled all of the lunatics and low information voters into one big happy voting block.

Unfortunately for him, and you is that won't be enough to convince millions of Americans that Socialism and or his " 12 point plan " to move America forward are worth considering.

Honestly, his ideas are a disaster. Basically, divisive identity politics, taxes on the " Rich " and Corporations and " stimulus to increase aggregate demand ".
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Sanders is obviously the best candidate that we have for president and I will support him wholeheartedly. Personally, however, I'd prefer that sick leave and parental leave were guaranteed through a basic minimum income provided by the government rather than a mandate on business. Since we don't have a basic minimum income, it's imperative that we push for paid parental leave, sick leave, and vacation time, since people don't currently have access to these things.

As far as rhetoric goes, I really enjoy the re-appropriation of family values, although I have little faith that the "grass is greener on the other side" Scandinavian worship is going to be very popular with voters.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Hell I'm on the Bernie bandwagon and I am Canadian! The points he brings up are no-brainers to me. I just learned a few months ago that the US does not have a national parental leave time law and I couldn't believe it. Here in Canada, we get one year.

If I own a business, why should I have to pay you for one year for not working?
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Hm. Firstly, its' interesting to see how the people he thinks should be paying for all these family benefits are not the families, or even the taxpayers, but third parties (it's always easier, I suppose, to sell something, when someone else has to pay for it). I'd take Sanders more seriously on this if he was willing to gouge his own ox on it.

I'm on the fence about maternity leave. We need more children being born, that's true. It is indeed good for the women, good for the babies, and good for the families. Mandating maternity leave, however, unfairly advantages women in the workplace, as it means that hiring a woman comes with greater costs than hiring a man, and it means that investing time, training, promotion, etc. in a man is likely to have higher returns than investing those same resources in a woman. I'm all for women staying home with kids when they are little (I think kids need a parent at that age), but that still strikes me as somewhat unfair.

I agree children need a healthy family, a parent at home and a stable community. The rest of your view seems narrow and corporate centric. These third parties don't exist in isolation. Every corporations existence rests on a charter of public trust. This includes civic, social, family, community, environment.. trust that they will value these issues as much as they do the bottom line and as much as we the people do.

Other nations have figured out that in order to compete with the juggernaut America in innovation, quality of life, standard of living, etc with smaller territories and fewer resources... You MUST invest in the children, their health, education, families and communities.

It's far too short sighted to complain about who's going to pay for it, or whether it's unfair. Men are disposable, expendable. Women are the only ones who can bring forth healthier, smarter, more well adjusted new life into the world. It's the human capital that a makes a country great.. Every "citizen" of this country should be behind.

Want to make America great again? Make its people more than pay check to paycheck cash machines for the bottom line. Make its people great.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

I agree children need a healthy family, a parent at home and a stable community. The rest of your view seems narrow and corporate centric. These third parties don't exist in isolation. Every corporations existence rests on a charter of public trust. This includes civic, social, family, community, environment.. trust that they will value these issues as much as they do the bottom line and as much as we the people do.

Other nations have figured out that in order to compete with the juggernaut America in innovation, quality of life, standard of living, etc with smaller territories and fewer resources... You MUST invest in the children, their health, education, families and communities.

It's far too short sighted to complain about who's going to pay for it, or whether it's unfair. Men are disposable, expendable. Women are the only ones who can bring forth healthier, smarter, more well adjusted new life into the world. It's the human capital that a makes a country great.. Every "citizen" of this country should be behind.

Want to make America great again? Make its people more than pay check to paycheck cash machines for the bottom line. Make its people great.

:lol: you can't. Americans make plenty enough to not live paycheck to paycheck - they just don't want to badly enough to limit their consumption. Americans spend more on their kids' health, education, etc. than other nations - we just don't love them enough to not get divorced / have them out of wedlock. Fathers are not disposable or expendable, and if you doubt that, check out the stats. The problems with America's kids, by and large, are mostly the fault of regular old Americans. Higher taxes and a few weeks of parental leave aren't going to fix that.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

If I own a business, why should I have to pay you for one year for not working?

Because having happy, healthy and well-grounded employees makes them more productive. That's why.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Because having happy, healthy and well-grounded employees makes them more productive. That's why.

If a year of paid leave made workers more productive, American companies would already be giving that benefit to their employees. I'm not aware of a single one that offers such a thing.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

If a year of paid leave made workers more productive, American companies would already be giving that benefit to their employees. I'm not aware of a single one that offers such a thing.

If that happened, then nobody would be working. And it's not common sense to do so... unless the woman gave birth. Think a woman is as productive coming back to work soon after giving birth?
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

If that happened, then nobody would be working. And it's not common sense to do so... unless the woman gave birth. Think a woman is as productive coming back to work soon after giving birth?

Yes, I do.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

From the Article:

And there are places that allow that maternity leave to be used between parents, rather than by just one parent, just the mother. The father could take the 12 weeks of leave and allow the mother to work instead.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

And there are places that allow that maternity leave to be used between parents, rather than by just one parent, just the mother. The father could take the 12 weeks of leave and allow the mother to work instead.

:shrug: potentially. You have kids, correct? What do you think the odds are of, 24 hours post-birth, you and your husband deciding that you were ready to hop back into it and him deciding that he was going to take some time off to stay at home with the baby?
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

:shrug: potentially. You have kids, correct? What do you think the odds are of, 24 hours post-birth, you and your husband deciding that you were ready to hop back into it and him deciding that he was going to take some time off to stay at home with the baby?

I know a woman who did "hop back into it". She was in the same office I was in, working a week after the birth. My husband stayed at home with our son the first 5 months of his life and I went back to work (still active duty at the time) after my month and a half off (I got paid leave for that time from the military, the same as my husband got when he had the multiple surgeries on his knee). I could have gone back after a week or two off physically (I was in the hospital for three days after my first son was born, and had stitches in a place I sit down on, along with breastfeeding).
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

I know a woman who did "hop back into it". She was in the same office I was in, working a week after the birth.

Yeah? And how many do you think do that v fathers?

My husband stayed at home with our son the first 5 months of his life and I went back to work (still active duty at the time) after my month and a half off (I got paid leave for that time from the military, the same as my husband got when he had the multiple surgeries on his knee)

So... you got six weeks of maternity leave. Yup.

Which works for government sector because there are no price pressures, no need to perform, and we don't care if we run a massive loss or a profit or what. But mandating it for business makes women more expensive and a higher risk. And will continue to do so even if you make it for either parent simply because the mother is - in the vast majority of cases - going to be the employee you lose, rather than the father. Businesses will make rational decisions accordingly.


Anywho, I necro this thread in order to point out that Marco Rubio has come out with a way to square a bit of that circle as part of the platform he's running on.

From the website:

Expanding access to paid family leave is part of Marco’s pro-family, pro-growth agenda. The status quo too often forces workers — especially new mothers — to quit their job permanently when they need time away from it, making it harder to return to work one day.

Done right, policies that encourage paid family leave can help Americans keep their jobs while focusing on their most important responsibilities: welcoming new life, caring for an ailing loved one, or supporting family members deploying to serve our nation.

Democrats like Hillary Clinton believe outdated, costly federal mandates coupled with new tax increases are the right approach, but we can do better in the 21st Century. Another one-size-fits-all burden from Washington is wrong for America’s diverse, dynamic workforce and middle-class families, especially when our country is struggling under the weight of Obamacare and other new costly regulations. The big government approach to paid family leave will cause employers to end or reduce more generous plans and make it harder for women to enter the workforce, while creating an expensive new entitlement. Efforts to encourage paid family leave should support workers — not hold them back.

To help businesses expand access to paid family leave, Marco is proposing:

Tax Relief for Employers Providing Paid Family Leave

The plan: A 25% non-refundable tax credit for businesses that voluntarily offer at least four weeks of paid family leave, limited to twelve weeks of leave and $4,000 per employee each year.

Marco’s plan is:
•Adaptable to all employee arrangements, including part-time work.
Available for new parents; caretakers of sick parents, spouses, and children; employees with serious illnesses; and military families.
•Based on the Strong Families Act, introduced by Senators Deb Fischer (R-NE) and Angus King (I-ME).

Marco’s proposal is part of his broader effort to strengthen middle-class families and grow the economy.

For instance, he also supports proposals to expand workplace flexibility by allowing employers to provide workers with a choice between receiving monetary compensation or paid leave for working overtime....
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

It fills my heart with warmth to see so many likely Democrat voters eager to flush their vote down the toilet. Go Bernie!

Well you are a vampire.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Yeah? And how many do you think do that v fathers?

So... you got six weeks of maternity leave. Yup.

Which works for government sector because there are no price pressures, no need to perform, and we don't care if we run a massive loss or a profit or what. But mandating it for business makes women more expensive and a higher risk. And will continue to do so even if you make it for either parent simply because the mother is - in the vast majority of cases - going to be the employee you lose, rather than the father. Businesses will make rational decisions accordingly.


Anywho, I necro this thread in order to point out that Marco Rubio has come out with a way to square a bit of that circle as part of the platform he's running on.

From the website:

You do understand that this girl was in the military right? She also was a single mother (I was the only married mother in admin).

And those things are great, but that doesn't mean other things he suggests are just as great. Is that time available for alternative parenting situations? Are businesses allowed to descriminate and still get those tax breaks?
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

You do understand that this girl was in the military right?

Yup. And I agree to give it every other impact that an anecdote gets against the actual stats.

But hey - if you have numbers that suggest that in anything close to 50% of cases the woman will hop right back into the workforce while the man stays home, I'd love to see them.

And those things are great, but that doesn't mean other things he suggests are just as great. Is that time available for alternative parenting situations? Are businesses allowed to descriminate and still get those tax breaks?

Businesses get the tax breaks only to the extent that they give the family leave to the employees, within an annual cap. What encourages discrimination in this sphere is making it mandatory.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Yeah? And how many do you think do that v fathers?



So... you got six weeks of maternity leave. Yup.

Which works for government sector because there are no price pressures, no need to perform, and we don't care if we run a massive loss or a profit or what. But mandating it for business makes women more expensive and a higher risk. And will continue to do so even if you make it for either parent simply because the mother is - in the vast majority of cases - going to be the employee you lose, rather than the father. Businesses will make rational decisions accordingly.


Anywho, I necro this thread in order to point out that Marco Rubio has come out with a way to square a bit of that circle as part of the platform he's running on.

From the website:

This is the same fear mongering that is used every time something is pushed that benefits workers.
Virtually every other country guarantees paid maternity leave. Yes, that's like saying businesses will stop hiring Women if we fight to give them equal pay.. Oh wait..
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

Why paid parental leave is good for everyone - Business Insider
While the law requires companies with 50 or more employees to provide new parents with 12 weeks of leave, it doesn't require this leave to be paid. In fact, the US is one of just two countries in the world that doesn't ensure any paid time off for new moms, according to a report from the International Labor Organization. The other: Papua New Guinea.
According to a report last year from the President's Council of Economic Advisers, more than 90% of employers affected by California's paid family-leave initiative reported either positive or no noticeable effect on profitability, turnover, and morale.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

W
So you and I would be one of the former.

Now. If he' so independent instead of a liberal democrat with self-affirming delusions, what issues does he vote with the Republican Party on?

Why the hell would a socialist vote with the Republican Party?
 
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