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Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

poweRob said:
They benefit society in that a rising tide lifts all boats. Like your next door neighbor being on welfare keeps his house while a next door neighbor who loses their house because there is no welfare drags your property value down with his foreclosure.
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sorry I don't buy into that. I don't live in an area where people need welfare to keep their 500K homes

seriously
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

poweRob said:
They benefit society in that a rising tide lifts all boats. Like your next door neighbor being on welfare keeps his house while a next door neighbor who loses their house because there is no welfare drags your property value down with his foreclosure.
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Hmmmm.. if TANF and SNAP "lifts all boats" then where are my TANF and SNAP benefits?
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

TurtleDude said:
sorry I don't buy into that. I don't live in an area where people need welfare to keep their 500K homes

seriously
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But you are attached to an area that has poor people somewhere I'm sure. And being poor and not absolutely destitute helps keep your area/city/county from being dragged down.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

poweRob said:
But you are attached to an area that has poor people somewhere I'm sure. And being poor and not absolutely destitute helps keep your area/city/county from being dragged down.
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nah not in my town. poor is the guy who has to drive a second hand BMW rather than a new one
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

TurtleDude said:
sorry I don't buy into that. I don't live in an area where people need welfare to keep their 500K homes

seriously
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Are you sure about that? A lot of people are just one serious medical problem away from losing their home.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

Hard Truth said:
Are you sure about that? A lot of people are just one serious medical problem away from losing their home.
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I will let you know if that happens in my area. been here 20 years-haven't seen it yet.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

poweRob said:
Saw this and had to post it for the lulz...

View attachment 67185696
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Wake me up when the Democrats figure out the difference between voluntary charity and mandatory taxation.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

jmotivator said:
Wake me up when the Democrats figure out the difference between voluntary charity and mandatory taxation.
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Why would I want to wake you up? Just keep sleeping.
 
Montecresto said:
Ok, I forgot that Union members weren't people.
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the suggestion was they represent all the people. which is idiotic. they represent mostly their leaders
 
Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

poweRob said:
Perhaps not as much but not all who pay taxes use all the roads that are paved. They are paying to pave it for others to drive on. All those programs are social to benefit society.
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The fire department has never put out a fire on any property I've ever owned, the only time I've ever interacted with the police, it cost me more money, and no army or group of people that our army has ever fought, was a threat to me.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

poweRob said:
Why would I want to wake you up? Just keep sleeping.
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Well, since I am planning on waking up when Democrats actually understand the difference between charity and taxes I am obviously planning on a rather looong sleep.
 
TurtleDude said:
the suggestion was they represent all the people. which is idiotic. they represent mostly their leaders
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That wasn't the suggestion at all. Unions, which the right hates, represents the people, not the corporation which the right favours. There use to be a majority of Americans represented by unions which helped bring all manner of benefits to the people that the right fought against. Since the right waged war against the unions, they now represent a small minority of the American work force.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

jmotivator said:
Well, since I am planning on waking up when Democrats actually understand the difference between charity and taxes I am obviously planning on a rather looong sleep.
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Great. Your voting record probably shows that your asleep as well so... no loss there. j/k
 
Montecresto said:
That wasn't the suggestion at all. Unions, which the right hates, represents the people, not the corporation which the right favours. There use to be a majority of Americans represented by unions which helped bring all manner of benefits to the people that the right fought against. Since the right waged war against the unions, they now represent a small minority of the American work force.
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I don't hate unions. Some unions are honorable organizations. The ones that teach apprentices a trade and then stand behind the work of their members. Those unions I have no problem with. Its the scummy unions like AFSCME or SEIU which exist purely to demand more wages for less effort that I cannot stand

and what is killing unions is GLOBAL labor markets and ECONOMIC reality, not the "right" as you claim
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't hate unions. Some unions are honorable organizations. The ones that teach apprentices a trade and then stand behind the work of their members. Those unions I have no problem with. Its the scummy unions like AFSCME or SEIU which exist purely to demand more wages for less effort that I cannot stand

and what is killing unions is GLOBAL labor markets and ECONOMIC reality, not the "right" as you claim
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Maybe you do like unions, but then you haven't any power to break them.

More than any other labor dispute of the past three decades, Reagan’s confrontation with the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization, or Patco, undermined the bargaining power of American workers and their labor unions. It also polarized our politics in ways that prevent us from addressing the root of our economic troubles: the continuing stagnation of incomes despite rising corporate profits and worker productivity.

Stalemate in Senate Leaves 4,000 Out of Work at F.A.A.AUG. 2, 2011
By firing those who refused to heed his warning, and breaking their union, Reagan took a considerable risk. Even his closest advisers worried that a major air disaster might result from the wholesale replacement of striking controllers. Air travel was significantly curtailed, and it took several years and billions of dollars (much more than Patco had demanded) to return the system to its pre-strike levels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/opinion/reagan-vs-patco-the-strike-that-busted-unions.html?_r=0
 
Montecresto said:
Maybe you do like unions, but then you haven't any power to break them.

More than any other labor dispute of the past three decades, Reagan’s confrontation with the Professional Air Traffic Controllers Organization, or Patco, undermined the bargaining power of American workers and their labor unions. It also polarized our politics in ways that prevent us from addressing the root of our economic troubles: the continuing stagnation of incomes despite rising corporate profits and worker productivity.

Stalemate in Senate Leaves 4,000 Out of Work at F.A.A.AUG. 2, 2011
By firing those who refused to heed his warning, and breaking their union, Reagan took a considerable risk. Even his closest advisers worried that a major air disaster might result from the wholesale replacement of striking controllers. Air travel was significantly curtailed, and it took several years and billions of dollars (much more than Patco had demanded) to return the system to its pre-strike levels.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/08/03/opinion/reagan-vs-patco-the-strike-that-busted-unions.html?_r=0
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PATCO was in violation of various laws. Public Service Unions are an abomination even FDR despised.
 
TurtleDude said:
PATCO was in violation of various laws. Public Service Unions are an abomination even FDR despised.
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It undermined the bargaining power of American workers and their labor unions. It also polarized our politics in ways that prevent us from addressing the root of our economic troubles: the continuing stagnation of incomes despite rising corporate profits and worker productivity. Was the point.
 
Montecresto said:
It undermined the bargaining power of American workers and their labor unions. It also polarized our politics in ways that prevent us from addressing the root of our economic troubles: the continuing stagnation of incomes despite rising corporate profits and worker productivity. Was the point.
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I find that to be without merit. Public unions shouldn't exist
 
TurtleDude said:
I find that to be without merit. Public unions shouldn't exist
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Yeah right, as well as food aid for the poor or aid for the disabled.

I find nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

After 1960 public sector unions grew rapidly and secured good wages and high pensions for their members.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-sector_trade_union

Its conservatives that hate the union.

Public sector unions came under heavy attack especially in Wisconsin, as well as Indiana, New Jersey and Ohio from conservative Republican legislatures.[19][20] 2012 update.[21] Conservative state legislatures tried to drastically reduce the abilities of unions to collectively bargain. Conservatives argued that public unions were too powerful since they helped elect their bosses, and that overly generous pension systems were too heavy a drain on state budgets.[22]
 
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Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

Montecresto said:
Yeah right, as well as food aid for the poor or aid for the disabled.

I find nothing wrong with this whatsoever.

After 1960 public sector unions grew rapidly and secured good wages and high pensions for their members.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public-sector_trade_union

Its conservatives that hate the union.

Public sector unions came under heavy attack especially in Wisconsin, as well as Indiana, New Jersey and Ohio from conservative Republican legislatures.[19][20] 2012 update.[21] Conservative state legislatures tried to drastically reduce the abilities of unions to collectively bargain. Conservatives argued that public unions were too powerful since they helped elect their bosses, and that overly generous pension systems were too heavy a drain on state budgets.[22]
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Even FDR was against them. they are nothing more than a leach on public tax payers. Unlike REAL unions who represent their members in negotiations with employers, Public sector unions usually are "bargaining" with those who don't represent the interests of the tax payers but are often politicians who are beholden to those unions for their continued re-election.

public sector unions do nothing to guarantee the quality of the labor the provide and serve no useful purpose for the public
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

TurtleDude said:
Even FDR was against them. they are nothing more than a leach on public tax payers. Unlike REAL unions who represent their members in negotiations with employers, Public sector unions usually are "bargaining" with those who don't represent the interests of the tax payers but are often politicians who are beholden to those unions for their continued re-election.

public sector unions do nothing to guarantee the quality of the labor the provide and serve no useful purpose for the public
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Good wages and higher pensions are good things.
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

Montecresto said:
Good wages and higher pensions are good things.
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not if they are solely the result of a public sector union in cahoots with public officials who are more worried about protecting their union votes than what is best for the taxpayers they are supposed to represent
 
Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

TurtleDude said:
not if they are solely the result of a public sector union in cahoots with public officials who are more worried about protecting their union votes than what is best for the taxpayers they are supposed to represent
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I don't care about public officials motives. Higher wages and pensions is good for Americans.
 
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