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Thread: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

  1. #131
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Fair enough.

    But, you're attempting to neatly pigeon hole the electorate.

    For example, not everyone with progressive & liberal ideas wants to give-out endless hand-outs & entitlements, or allow individuals to abrogate social & financial responsibility - yet unabashed entitlements & the lack-of-responsibility are supposedly the hallmark of liberalism.

    Here's something I wrote in the 'Cruz, JFK' thread last night, if you're interested:

    Debate Politics
    I'm not really trying to pigeon hole people, but neither will I pretend Sanders is some kind of "libertarian".

    And yes, there is the occasional reasonable liberal, but you and I both know that's the exception to the rule. .

  2. #132
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Vance, It seems you're trying to make this personal about me, whereas if you had an arguable point to make you could've made it - I'm not going to be drawn down that path.

    My personal life & it's circumstance has nothing to bear on the merit (or lack thereof) of your argument.
    Im trying to have a dialogue with you. You are ALL FOR this. I am asking a simple and direct question. You respond with this 'drama'. The dialogue is based off a simple question. Do you have a business with employees? Yes or no?

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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    yea tell all those people getting government checks how great they are doing on government assistance and that by taxing those evil rich people more they will get off
    of government assistance. lol

    almost 18 trillion dollars has been spent on the so called war on povery for only a 2% drop. so giving money to the poor is evidently not working.
    redistribution doesn't work and plenty of countries have proven this.

    there is nothing that will fully solve the problem either. there will always be wealthy and poor.

    you want to close the wage gap then you have to get the economy working and get the economy demanding employee's.
    that is where democrats and Obama have failed. their constant war on prosperity has lead to the stagnation of the US economy.
    Quote Originally Posted by ludin View Post
    you can't promise all these people things and not raise taxes by a huge amount. just on his healthcare plan alone most countries have a 40-60% tax on healthcare.
    that doesn't include the income tax and VAT taxes on top of it. how do you expect someone to live when you are taking 70-75% of their check in taxes?


    here is but the tax system needs a total overhaul, and nothing that democrats would support because it takes power away from government.


    I would give them a 2 day tax free day to bring money into the US overseas as long as that money was invested in jobs and growth.



    ugg all those shovel ready jobs just worked out really well didn't they. that was an utter failure.



    yes lets kill investment completely. that will make the economy run better.



    not really most of his ideas call for massive tax increases on working people. but it is easy to call for everything to be free when you are not the one footing the bill.
    Thanks for the reply, and while there's far too many points than I'd care address categorically, I found you've had some (if even slight) agreement on one or two of mine, and I agree on a few of yours.

    The war on poverty has been an abject failure on every level. I'm not sure how to solve it (I've tossed out the idea of eliminating all entitlements, and providing a small guaranteed income for all, which (along with single-payer healthcare) would provide all the social safety I think I'd ever care to supply my fellow Americans while still providing incentive to better oneself (unlike means-tested benefits). I'd dump the whole current means-tested entitlement systems, ideally.

    Barring the above, I see no reason entitlements such as welfare & disability couldn't be curtailed substantially; strictly from anecdotal experience, a huge number of the recipients I know are abusing the system - easily 1/2 of the one's I know, maybe more (I know this is not a statistical sample - but I'd cut them drastically).

    If we were to cut the current entitlements, along with closing some of the tax loopholes I listed in my prior post, I'd like us to then zero-out the deficit and use the rest for sensible social programs that are not means tested, along with infrastructure improvement. I'd also toss a few obligatory bucks at the national debt, just to look good.

    As to single-payer healthcare, I'm not sure where your figures of 40-60% "tax" come from, but we are already have 43% of our fellow Americans being provided single-payer healthcare in this country (Medicare, MedicAid, Disability) - I'd extend it (MediCare) for all in a sliding fashion over quite a few years so as to not shock the system. I'd keep our current private provider system, so most accurately we'd have a single-payer/private provider system. As to costs, they'd have to be curtailed absolutely - I believe this is the key. Other countries have done this, and quite a few have better healthcare outcomes than we currently do, and they have lower costs as well.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I would be inclined to agree with you, if you could cite examples from Sen. Sander's plan supporting the degree of intervention you describe above - I have not seen Sen. Sanders call for raising the federal income tax to 75%, for instance.

    But there are some fixes in the tax code & other areas that I think could do us good.

    I'd personally like to see some small tax or other incentive to bring overseas corporate money back to the States (and hopefully invested here, too)

    I also see no problem putting infrastructure rebuilding jobs into the hands of working-class Americans, giving them money for their labor to stimulate our heretofore consumer-driven economy.

    I also would like to see the capital gains tax rates move a little closer to the income tax rates for those that primarily dervive their income from capital gains.

    There's a lot that can be done within the framework of Sen. Sander's plan that's sensible, not radical - and quite honestly, I think there's some populist momentum for some of these things.
    He calls fo Tax Increases on Corporations and the wealthy and he thinks charging Middle class Consumers MORE for the energy via destructive regulatory mandates on industry and power generation plants is going to stop " Global warming ".

    He's a Socialist and given Socialisms current state of failure and bankruptcy I cannot believe ANYONE takes his candidacy seriously.

  5. #135
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    But but he's a socialistic libertarian! Lol.
    I know, right? Appeal to imaginary eschaton is obvious. Sanders' defenders may try to claim that he wants this mythical society where nobody rules anyone else, but in Real Life he is only too happy for the current Federal Government to do that ruling on "nobody's" behalf.

    It's like taking the formulation that "If men were angels, we would need no government", and then excusing whatever you wanted to do with government by exclaiming "Oh but I would prefer that men be angels!" Well thanks, jack, for that incredible insight.
    Worth noting, Democrats: President Trump will have a Pen and a Phone. #Precedent.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Uh, that would be you. Nice try though.

    No comment on CPUSA and CPC being named as it's "allies in congress"?
    "I know you are but what am i" approach? Lol

    What's to comment on? They like something he did isn't even remotely close to Bernie being allied with them. If that's how you view the world then I'll align the GOP with the American fascist movement. Your logic makes no sense.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    I get it. I know people that are already "all in" for Hillary. Ive asked why in the past but I have stopped. "Deer in the headlights" is not a very becoming fashion statement on people.
    I don't know why people seem to believe that they have to have an answer when asked. They really don't know and they should say so instead of pretending to be in the loop when they are not.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by poweRob View Post
    I don't know why people seem to believe that they have to have an answer when asked. They really don't know and they should say so instead of pretending to be in the loop when they are not.
    Ya gotta admit though...it would be nice if people acgtually knew what they were voting for and why. Kinda explains very clearly where we are at as a country with regard to our politicians.

  9. #139
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    I havent watched the video yet so maybe it explains it better

    but just on the thread title . . . .the GOP doesnt have family values and never did . . . ever

    now im not saying GOPers dont have family values . . .of course some do

    Im simply pointing out the fact that family values belong to all of us and the GOP never owned them, were responsible for them, were good factual examples of them or the champion force of them . . . no party was . . . .
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by AGENT J View Post
    I havent watched the video yet so maybe it explains it better

    but just on the thread title . . . .the GOP doesnt have family values and never did . . . ever

    now im not saying GOPers dont have family values . . .of course some do

    Im simply pointing out the fact that family values belong to all of us and the GOP never owned them, were responsible for them, were good factual examples of them or the champion force of them . . . no party was . . . .
    This is true. But it's a political battle of what's NOT said when someone invents this kind of talking point. "We are the party of Family Values" is not raising them up as much as it is them saying "That party over there does not have family values." It's ****ty. It's stupid. It's politics. And it works unfortunately.
    Quote Originally Posted by apdst View Post
    The Supreme Court can't interpret The Constitution. They don't have that power.

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