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Thread: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

  1. #121
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Is there a point you'd like to make, without excessive drama?
    Its a simple question. You are the only one injecting drama. I asked a simple question.

  2. #122
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    A disaster in your opinion & from your point of view.

    But, some others of us see three-decades of (supposed) 'trickle-down economics', and are still waiting to see the results we've been promised!
    No, not my opinion at all.

    Sanders " fairness and equality " iniatives have been tried to varying degrees all over the world and with expected results.

    When Francis Hollande raised rates on the " Rich " to 75 percent did it fix disparity ?

    Or make disparity worse ? It made it worse.

    When Japan blew through 10 different Stimulus packages totaling 100 Trillion Yen did it fix their economy ?

    No it didn't. It just exploded their debt and led to nearly 3 decades of stagnationn.

    If I asked my 7 year old cousin how would SHE fix income and wealth disparity she would respond by repeating the same left wing Socialist rhetoric of redistribution.

    The " Rich " should give some of their money to the poor

    Sanders initiatives appeal to the type people that have a child's view of the World and its issues.

  3. #123
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post






    Votes with Democrats
    Caucuses with Democrats
    Committee Memberships count against Democrats
    Running for nomination of Democrat Party for President.

    It's a Democrat.
    But but he's a socialistic libertarian! Lol.

  4. #124
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Not so fast there:

    "Libertarian socialism (sometimes called social anarchism,[1][2] left-libertarianism[3][4] and socialist libertarianism[5]) is a group of political philosophies within the socialist movement that reject the view of socialism as state ownership or command of the means of production[6] within a more general criticism of the state form itself[7][8] as well as of wage labour relationships within the workplace.[9] Instead it emphasizes workers' self management of the workplace[10] and decentralized structures of political government[11] asserting that a society based on freedom and equality can be achieved through abolishing authoritarian institutions that control certain means of production and subordinate the majority to an owning class or political and economic elite.[12] Libertarian socialists generally place their hopes in decentralized means of direct democracy and federal or confederal associations[13] such as libertarian municipalism, citizens' assemblies, trade unions, and workers' councils.[14][15] All of this is generally done within a general call for libertarian[16] and voluntary human relationships[17] through the identification, criticism, and practical dismantling of illegitimate authority in all aspects of human life.[18][19][20][21][22][23][24]"

    Source: Wikipedia - 'Libertarian Socialism'

    As an aside, even though the Wiki 'Libertarian Socialism' article references 'Left Libertarianism' (something with some facets I'm fond of), there are differences - but fundamentally:

    "Left-libertarianism (or left-wing libertarianism) names several related but distinct approaches to political and social theory, which stress both individual freedom and social justice."

    Source: Wikipedia - 'Left-Libertarianism'

    In this country, 'Libertarianism' is most often associated with 'Right Libertarianism', which weighs more heavily on unfettered free-market capitalism and the unequal accumulation of wealth (as one would expect in a country with a heavily corporate & affluent individual influenced political process).

    Both forms of Libertarians are anti-statists, they just differ on how to control capital & production (that's a big-deal.)

    But elementally, individuals & philosophies can't always be defined by neat little pigeon holes (though our politicians and their political parties would like you to believe that, as they try to get us to tear each other apart for their benefit!)
    Whatever, people come up with all kinds of goofy contradictory labels for themselves. Doesn't change reality.

    On this board, "left libertarians" are indistinguishable from garden variety libs.

  5. #125
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Fenton View Post
    No, not my opinion at all.

    Sanders " fairness and equality " iniatives have been tried to varying degrees all over the world and with expected results.

    When Francis Hollande raised rates on the " Rich " to 75 percent did it fix disparity ?

    Or make disparity worse ? It made it worse.

    When Japan blew through 10 different Stimulus packages totaling 100 Trillion Yen did it fix their economy ?

    No it didn't. It just exploded their debt and led to nearly 3 decades of stagnationn.

    If I asked my 7 year old cousin how would SHE fix income and wealth disparity she would respond by repeating the same left wing Socialist rhetoric of redistribution.

    The " Rich " should give some of their money to the poor

    Sanders initiatives appeal to the type people that have a child's view of the World and its issues.
    I would be inclined to agree with you, if you could cite examples from Sen. Sander's plan supporting the degree of intervention you describe above - I have not seen Sen. Sanders call for raising the federal income tax to 75%, for instance.

    But there are some fixes in the tax code & other areas that I think could do us good.

    I'd personally like to see some small tax or other incentive to bring overseas corporate money back to the States (and hopefully invested here, too)

    I also see no problem putting infrastructure rebuilding jobs into the hands of working-class Americans, giving them money for their labor to stimulate our heretofore consumer-driven economy.

    I also would like to see the capital gains tax rates move a little closer to the income tax rates for those that primarily dervive their income from capital gains.

    There's a lot that can be done within the framework of Sen. Sander's plan that's sensible, not radical - and quite honestly, I think there's some populist momentum for some of these things.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

  6. #126
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy View Post
    Whatever, people come up with all kinds of goofy contradictory labels for themselves. Doesn't change reality.

    On this board, "left libertarians" are indistinguishable from garden variety libs.
    Fair enough.

    But, you're attempting to neatly pigeon hole the electorate.

    For example, not everyone with progressive & liberal ideas wants to give-out endless hand-outs & entitlements, or allow individuals to abrogate social & financial responsibility - yet unabashed entitlements & the lack-of-responsibility are supposedly the hallmark of liberalism.

    Here's something I wrote in the 'Cruz, JFK' thread last night, if you're interested:

    Debate Politics
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

  7. #127
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Do YOU have a business with employees?
    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    Is there a point you'd like to make, without excessive drama?
    Quote Originally Posted by VanceMack View Post
    Its a simple question. You are the only one injecting drama. I asked a simple question.
    Vance, It seems you're trying to make this personal about me, whereas if you had an arguable point to make you could've made it - I'm not going to be drawn down that path.

    My personal life & it's circumstance has nothing to bear on the merit (or lack thereof) of your argument.
    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross." - Sinclair Lewis

    The 10 Commandments of Logic - (Courtesy of Abbazorkzog Blog)

  8. #128
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    Re: Bernie Sanders lays out REAL family values platform

    Quote Originally Posted by Redress View Post
    It isn't really "third party paying for it", it would simply be a mandated part of any compensation package for workers. Employers would be able to make up any cost from other parts of the compensation package. I am not saying it is a good idea, I am not sure but kinda unsold at this point. I would like to hear what the arguments against it are at the very least before I would make up my mind.

    And while he calls it maternity leave, I think he intends for both parents from the way he words it.
    yeah that means less raises, less promotions and less promotion increases.
    why should I be punished for working because betty chose to get pregnant?

    pregnancy is a choice and neither employee's nor employers should have to pay for that choice. she has vacation time and sick leave and long and short term disability.

  9. #129
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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    A disaster in your opinion & from your point of view.

    But, some others of us see three-decades of (supposed) 'trickle-down economics', and are still waiting to see the results we've been promised!
    yea tell all those people getting government checks how great they are doing on government assistance and that by taxing those evil rich people more they will get off
    of government assistance. lol

    almost 18 trillion dollars has been spent on the so called war on povery for only a 2% drop. so giving money to the poor is evidently not working.
    redistribution doesn't work and plenty of countries have proven this.

    there is nothing that will fully solve the problem either. there will always be wealthy and poor.

    you want to close the wage gap then you have to get the economy working and get the economy demanding employee's.
    that is where democrats and Obama have failed. their constant war on prosperity has lead to the stagnation of the US economy.

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    Re: Bernie Sanders wants to take back “family values” from the GOP

    Quote Originally Posted by Chomsky View Post
    I would be inclined to agree with you, if you could cite examples from Sen. Sander's plan supporting the degree of intervention you describe above - I have not seen Sen. Sanders call for raising the federal income tax to 75%, for instance.
    you can't promise all these people things and not raise taxes by a huge amount. just on his healthcare plan alone most countries have a 40-60% tax on healthcare.
    that doesn't include the income tax and VAT taxes on top of it. how do you expect someone to live when you are taking 70-75% of their check in taxes?

    But there are some fixes in the tax code & other areas that I think could do us good.
    here is but the tax system needs a total overhaul, and nothing that democrats would support because it takes power away from government.

    I'd personally like to see some small tax or other incentive to bring overseas corporate money back to the States (and hopefully invested here, too)
    I would give them a 2 day tax free day to bring money into the US overseas as long as that money was invested in jobs and growth.

    I also see no problem putting infrastructure rebuilding jobs into the hands of working-class Americans, giving them money for their labor to stimulate our heretofore consumer-driven economy.
    ugg all those shovel ready jobs just worked out really well didn't they. that was an utter failure.

    I also would like to see the capital gains tax rates move a little closer to the income tax rates for those that primarily dervive their income from capital gains.
    yes lets kill investment completely. that will make the economy run better.

    There's a lot that can be done within the framework of Sen. Sander's plan that's sensible, not radical - and quite honestly, I think there's some populist momentum for some of these things.
    not really most of his ideas call for massive tax increases on working people. but it is easy to call for everything to be free when you are not the one footing the bill.

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