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Thread: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    This information has been provided to you many times before. Numbers dont lie.All you have done to counter is just screamed, "nauh!" over and over again
    Ha, ha, ha.
    Just more dishonesty. Same as using such stats in the first place. Figures.

    The numbers are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by Excon View Post
    Ha, ha, ha.
    Just more dishonesty. Same as using such stats in the first place. Figures.

    The numbers are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.
    Guess we have to present it to you again...

    "This study provides robust evidence that black male federal defendants receive longer
    sentences than whites arrested for the same offenses and with the same prior records. On average
    black males receive sentences that are approximately 10% longer than comparable white
    males with those at the top of the sentencing distribution facing even larger disparities. Much of
    that disparity appears to be driven by decisions at the initial charging stage, especially by prosecutors’
    filing of “mandatory minimum” charges, which, ceteris paribus, they do twice as often
    against black defendants. Our estimates of disparities in prosecutorial decisions are likely conservative,
    because they do not encompass gaps introduced by prearrest prosecutorial involvement
    in the case, nor do they account for possible disparities in law enforcement. "
    Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences by M. Marit Rehavi, Sonja B. Starr :: SSRN

    In other words even when looking at the background of such cases african americans are more likely to be charged with violations carrying minimal sentences and this accounts for most of the black white gap in sentencing.

    Its okay, I already know your response: "Nauh!"


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Guess we have to present it to you again...
    [IMG]http://i59.tinypic.com/20sxfo7.jpg[IMG]
    "This study provides robust evidence that black male federal defendants receive longer
    sentences than whites arrested for the same offenses and with the same prior records. On average
    black males receive sentences that are approximately 10% longer than comparable white
    males with those at the top of the sentencing distribution facing even larger disparities. Much of
    that disparity appears to be driven by decisions at the initial charging stage, especially by prosecutors’
    filing of “mandatory minimum” charges, which, ceteris paribus, they do twice as often
    against black defendants. Our estimates of disparities in prosecutorial decisions are likely conservative,
    because they do not encompass gaps introduced by prearrest prosecutorial involvement
    in the case, nor do they account for possible disparities in law enforcement. "
    Racial Disparity in Federal Criminal Charging and Its Sentencing Consequences by M. Marit Rehavi, Sonja B. Starr :: SSRN

    In other words even when looking at the background of such cases african americans are more likely to be charged with violations carrying minimal sentences and this accounts for most of the black white gap in sentencing.

    Its okay, I already know your response: "Nauh!"
    You still are not paying attention.

    Again.
    The numbers are not a complete and thorough examination of all pertaining facts to sentencing and as such mean absolutely nothing of value.

    You really should have paid attention to what was said.
    What you provided does not provide a complete and thorough examination of all facts pertaining to sentencing and as such is meaningless drivel.


    It is funny that you think that same crime means same actions. Or that same criminal history means the same actions created that history.
    Get a clue. They don't.
    Last edited by Excon; 06-14-15 at 07:16 PM.
    “The law is reason, free from passion.”
    Aristotle
    (≚ᄌ≚)

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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Log cabin cells?
    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Light View Post
    The systems that ensure freedom and liberty are breaking down and fundamentalism is growing. Nobody is righteous anymore.


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by Kreton View Post
    I do not believe any of that to be true. Largely because I have been pulled over. I have had my car searched. I have been handcuffed as cops flipped my apartment. I have been followed around stores. Just like almost every other teen in America. Very few people care any more if their boss is black. That has been a problem in the past but most companies, especially large companies have minorities in management or supervisory positions. You are simply wrong on almost all counts.
    Ask a black person about DWB. Have you ever done that?

    And let's take this at face value: "Very few people care any more if their boss is black." Approximately no one cares if their boss is a white male, because that's the 'standard' if you will. Advantage white male! And that's really the entire point.

    no it doesnt. Show me ONE employer who hires based on race in any major corporation in the United States. you may be able to find some family run businesses that all happen to be the same race, largely due to them being family, but i can point out many businesses in almost any city where people of every race do that. .
    Again, you're making my point nicely. Of course we all consciously or subconsciously prefer to hire and work closely with those who are like us. And so for lots of reasons, in my area in part centuries of state sanctioned discrimination, most businesses are owned by whites, mostly white males, mostly white male Christians, and so in a competition if it's two people - a white male, and a black female, all things equal, the white male gets the job. Not because of overt racism anymore - I think the vast majority are over that - but just comfort, rapport, ease working with, etc. It's just human nature.

    Take a look at the CEOs for Fortune 500 or Fortune 1000. It's getting better - in 2000 there were 3 of 1,000. Now there's a whopping 51 of 1,000. I don't really think that's because there are only 51 qualified women in the country. It's because until 2000, CEO was a job for white males, period. That was it. So you're going to have to do a lot of work to convince anyone that white males don't have the edge. And it's not just CEO - that's just the last of many steps. It's for top management jobs, period. And it's easy to explain. The BOD hires the CEO, and the Board is likely all male, almost all white and they're most comfortable, have the most confidence in people like them, white males. Their style is the same, way of communicating, golf outings, outings to strip joints, hunting weekends, playing softball, etc.

    You seem to have this false idea that the majority of Americans are racist. It is simply not true. Most Americans are not racist. That isn't to say there aren't any racists out there, but it is no longer common.
    Not at all. But we all have biases, and there is a big gray area where almost all of us fall between "stone cold racist" and "color blind" and it's various levels of preference, comfort, ease, confidence in those like YOU.

    FWIW, I'll admit my biases because I live in the South and we have a long history of overt and state supported racism, and it lasted well into MY lifetime, and it just is not at all dead here. If I was talented and black, I'd move, and most do.

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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    So after saying you won't answer the question, you're now answering the question? And your answer doesn't show that he was jailed illegally; it shows that he wasn't given a speedy trial
    So you've failed now 3 times to provide a penal statue that allows someone to be held for 3 years in jail without a trial. Care for a 4th failure?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by sangha View Post
    I never said that the law allowed someone to be held for 3 years. I said the law allows someone to be held without being charged.
    Which law would that be and more importantly, was it used in this case?
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by JasperL View Post
    Like I said, the "privilege" is at its core not having had to overcome any externally imposed barriers on your success, the kind of barriers that those of other races, religions, and women in many cases DO have to overcome.

    Or to put it another way, I can't speak for you, but I know in my personal or professional life I've never for one second had to worry about my race or my gender or my religion. It has never occurred to me that any of those might be a disadvantage in any way. That's not true for blacks, women, or for other races or religions, for whom who they are IS often/frequently/constantly a barrier to their success.

    Finally, if I was worried number 1 about career success and could pick, I'd pick what I am - white male Christian. In most areas of the country, in the vast majority of jobs, that's still true and it's not close (except obviously race/gender/religion specific - I'd make a poor lingerie model...).

    It doesn't mean you were GIVEN a thing, or that your road was easy, or that your success illegitimate or in any way unearned. You're misunderstanding what the term is supposed to imply.
    I've been discriminated against because of my heritage, it probably cost me a marriage when I was younger. I was also discriminated against because of my religion.... Sunni Turk fathers apparently don't want their daughters dating white, American Christian men you see. And my previous position stands - the portion of society that pushes bull**** like white privilege are the 1% economic class and politicians to drive a wedge between people by race during elections. Fact is if there is any privilege it with minorities who are provided privileges over the majority in an attempt to "even the field". The attempt to make people feel guilty about their skin color is just another wedge issue. Those who TRULY have privilege are the wealthy (regardless of skin color), and the political class who primarily work for government as well as the famous in pop culture.

    The problem with that is those are the EXACT same privileged people who squawk and promote "white privilege" and is severely ironic.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by Chase View Post
    I think that what he is saying is that you don't have to be given any special privileges......because the system is geared in your favor from the beginning. The "system" is geared for the white male to succeed.
    And I'm saying that's horse****.
    “I think if Thomas Jefferson were looking down, the author of the Bill of Rights, on what’s being proposed here, he’d agree with it. He would agree that the First Amendment cannot be absolute.” - Chuck Schumer (D). Yet, Madison and Mason wrote the Bill of Rights, according to Sheila Jackson Lee, 400 years ago. Yup, it's a fact.


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    Re: Rand Paul: ‘White kids don’t get the same justice’

    Quote Originally Posted by Ockham View Post
    I've been discriminated against because of my heritage, it probably cost me a marriage when I was younger. I was also discriminated against because of my religion.... Sunni Turk fathers apparently don't want their daughters dating white, American Christian men you see. And my previous position stands - the portion of society that pushes bull**** like white privilege are the 1% economic class and politicians to drive a wedge between people by race during elections. Fact is if there is any privilege it with minorities who are provided privileges over the majority in an attempt to "even the field". The attempt to make people feel guilty about their skin color is just another wedge issue. Those who TRULY have privilege are the wealthy (regardless of skin color), and the political class who primarily work for government as well as the famous in pop culture.

    The problem with that is those are the EXACT same privileged people who squawk and promote "white privilege" and is severely ironic.
    I agree about the privilege of wealth. But I think you're kidding yourself if you think that there is no advantage to being white, or conversely that blacks, women and other minorities don't have a harder time in most jobs in most areas of the country than white males.

    But the recent line-up of GOP committee chairmen does help your case....

    186pc68fo8xu.jpg

    Top positions are clearly based solely on merit. Too bad women/minorities/Jews just aren't qualified for top political positions in the GOP....

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