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Thread: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

  1. #11
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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    They are giving the President the authority to submit a negotiated trade deal for an up or down vote which Congress is then free to vote down or vote up as it pleases.

    I'm pretty solidly on the side of "we have an imperial Presidency and that's a problem" when it comes to balance-of-powers, but this is still a good move.
    So why cant they amend it? Why can not amendments be added or continuation of negotiatoins, etc. Its literally either take it or leave it. And how this will be framed is, "you either are with us or not, this is the greatest trade deal ever (just as every "free trade" deal has been presented) and if you vote against it or somehow convince the majority of congress to vote it down you are shooting an amazingly large portion of the worlds economy in the foot" (oh and dont forget that this is negotiated in secret with corporate powers).
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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    So why cant they amend it? Why can not amendments be added or continuation of negotiatoins, etc. Its literally either take it or leave it.
    That's right. That's what happens when the Executive negotiates a foreign deal (say, a treaty, or a nuclear deal with Iran that is a treaty in everything but name so as to avoid the supermajority requirement). Congress then votes on it. Congress shouldn't renegotiate the agreement.

    And how this will be framed is, "you either are with us or not, this is the greatest trade deal ever (just as every "free trade" deal has been presented) and if you vote against it or somehow convince the majority of congress to vote it down you are shooting an amazingly large portion of the worlds economy in the foot" (oh and dont forget that this is negotiated in secret with corporate powers).
    I'm not a fan of the lack of transparency, I agree. This administration is Nixonesque in its' paranoia and desire to control information. I also agree that the President is likely to accuse people who disagree with him on the left or the right of doing so from crass motivations, and generally being an enemy of trade, economic growth, freedom, poor people, and little puppies. It's what he does. That doesn't make this a bad policy.

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    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    So if Obama was indeed one of the two or three most liberal Dem senators and he has turned into a corporatist lackey - what hope is there for anybody else?

    Yes - I know - we could all vote Republican..... but my view is that Dem president (Obama - Bill Clinton) has no problem from time to time kissing the fat behind of the corporations while the Republicans fight to see whose tongue can make a deeper penetration and then want to brag about the great taste experience. So its a lesser of two evils choice.
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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by cpwill View Post
    That's right. That's what happens when the Executive negotiates a foreign deal (say, a treaty, or a nuclear deal with Iran that is a treaty in everything but name so as to avoid the supermajority requirement). Congress then votes on it. Congress shouldn't renegotiate the agreement.
    Why shouldnt they have a say in it? They are our elected representatives. Corporate powers get a say in the negotiations, but not congress? Corporate powers get to help draft the legislation, but not congress?

    I'm not a fan of the lack of transparency, I agree. This administration is Nixonesque in its' paranoia and desire to control information. I also agree that the President is likely to accuse people who disagree with him on the left or the right of doing so from crass motivations, and generally being an enemy of trade, economic growth, freedom, poor people, and little puppies. It's what he does. That doesn't make this a bad policy.
    So what makes it a good policy? So you support the fast track authority, you dont support the lack of transparency? Also what makes fast tracking the deal the correct way to implement the policy?

    Partisans vote their side. Ideologues vote their ideas. Politicians vote their base. Be an Ideologue, my friend. .
    Just a democratic-socialist in the heartland of America.CHECK OUT MY TUMBLR(BLOG)HERE "Life is beautiful. Let the future generations cleanse it of all evil, oppression, and violence, and enjoy it to the full."

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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Read more: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote - Jake Sherman - POLITICO

    Well that really didnt take too long. Boehner must be indicated that they have the votes. Unfortunately there is little hope that this measure is going to be shot down. I hope they can keep a lively debate. [/FONT][/COLOR]
    Unfortunately Chamber of commerce republicans and democrats love sucking the cocks(I use this terminology because this goes beyond just simple ass kissing) of big business owners.These chamber of commerce politicians could care less about the harm these trade deals do to American workers, the harm it does to our industrial sovereignty and the fact these trade deals line the pockets of dangerous countries like China for example.As a result of the trade deal they are able to build up it's military which will pose harm to the US and it's interests over seas.

    Karl Marx's said something about hanging the last capitalist they bought rope from. Many people probably thought who would be stupid enough to sell rope to those nutjobs,Well one only has to look at the chamber of commerce politicians with their lips wrapped around the cocks of business and the outsourcing companies so eager to do trade deals with those countries in order to exploit dirt cheap labor and lack of environmental and worker safety laws. These Chamber of commerce politicians and the outsourcing companies are so greedy they would probably sell their own grandma to cannibals and their soul to the devil if it meant they could make an extra dollar.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Here's an idea, call and email your senators, your reps and let them know if they vote to allow this you'll never vote for them again, for anything. And mean it.

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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Obama is a tyrant but lets go ahead and fast track TPP and fight over authorization of force in Iraq because it's not expansive enough.
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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why shouldnt they have a say in it? They are our elected representatives.
    So is the President. It's his job to negotiate on behalf of the United States with foreign governments. It's Congress' job to provide a check on that by voting on it. It's not Congress' job to negotiate or attempt to renegotiate. They can place pressure ahead of time by saying what they will or will not vote for, but negotiation with foreign nations is not their job.

    Corporate powers get a say in the negotiations, but not congress? Corporate powers get to help draft the legislation, but not congress?
    If you've got a problem with that, take it to "The Most Transparent Administration Ever Who Won't Hire Lobbyists".

    So what makes it a good policy? So you support the fast track authority, you dont support the lack of transparency? Also what makes fast tracking the deal the correct way to implement the policy?
    Fast Track is good policy because it allows trade deals to get an up or down vote rather than getting killed via legislative purgatory and poison pills. It forces Congress to vote on it - and if they don't like it, they are free to vote against it, and the President loses. Just like Treaties. It follows the Constitutional model of separation of powers, keeping the roles of the branches separate, telling the Legislature to be the Legislature, and the Executive to be the Executive. The need to have a single point of negotiation with the United States of America is one of the reasons that we have our current system - under the Articles nobody knew whether they needed to negotiate with Congress, the State Governors, the State Legislators, etc.; and each party felt that it had the right to ride over the others, creating chaos and making it almost impossible to have a foreign policy.
    “In America we have a two-party system,” a Republican congressional staffer told a visiting group of Russian legislators. “There is the stupid party. And there is the evil party. I am proud to be a member of the stupid party. Periodically, the two parties get together and do something that is both stupid and evil. This is called: bipartisanship."

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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    You think giving the president fast track authority is a good thing? Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    And you support this bill why?
    Less so support of this particular bill and granting a known weak negotiator such as Obama and his administration fast track, but more so in amazement in the difference in progress, actual accomplishment and legislation passed between a McConnell led Senate and a Reid led Senate is all.
    It's a global Jihad, stupid. Allowing that poison into the country is only going to increase the damage it inflicts on others.
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    Re: GOP leaders confirm Friday trade vote

    Quote Originally Posted by TheDemSocialist View Post
    Why shouldnt they have a say in it? They are our elected representatives. Corporate powers get a say in the negotiations, but not congress? Corporate powers get to help draft the legislation, but not congress?
    Congress gets the ultimate say. If Congress feels that the agreement is not compatible with the national interest it can reject it. Then, the U.S. is not bound by its terms. Then the negotiating parties can decide whether to set it aside or rework it taking into consideration Congress' action. No Representative or Senator is obligated to support the agreement if he/she feels it is against the national interest. In fact, if he/she were to support it despite such a position, he/she should not be in government.

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